Navigation advice

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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WEBH
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by WEBH »

Thanks again for the advice, sounds like the 1030/1040 is the way to go. If I'm understanding correctly (unlikely) then I could input a route each evening with one of these standalone, ie without internet/phone assistance? That would be great and the ideal solution; it would also help with the cicerone route, which is all very well but written from the opposite way to which I will be cycling it! Therefore almost impossible to read it 'backwards' during the ride. If I can just input the next days end point according to the guide - and the device will lead me there - I'm in business!
Jdsk
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Jdsk »

WEBH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 12:58pm ...
If I'm understanding correctly (unlikely) then I could input a route each evening with one of these standalone, ie without internet/phone assistance?
...
I'm not sure what you're describing there.. would that be a route from some other source, or a route calculated by the satnav device itself?

Thanks

Jonathan
Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

WEBH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 12:58pm Thanks again for the advice, sounds like the 1030/1040 is the way to go. If I'm understanding correctly (unlikely) then I could input a route each evening with one of these standalone, ie without internet/phone assistance? That would be great and the ideal solution; it would also help with the cicerone route, which is all very well but written from the opposite way to which I will be cycling it! Therefore almost impossible to read it 'backwards' during the ride. If I can just input the next days end point according to the guide - and the device will lead me there - I'm in business!
When I say I get on well with mine, I don't have experience of other Garmins and the 1030/1040 are expensive and have a load of fitness features you are paying for and sounds like you don't need. But they do have the navigation as well.

I used my 1030 each evening for last month of a 2 month tour (France, Belgium, Germany and Netherlands) creating a route on-device. It worked. Setting start point was easy (You just select current location!). I liked to set an exact destination (my intended campsite) and that could be a fiddle (as it would be on any small screen) - but I managed fine and I didn't find it frustrating. I often set a couple of "via points" when I wanted to call in at a supermarket or see somewhere along the route.

I did initially have a Wahoo but that was so rubbish it was useless and the reason I had to go buy whatever Garmin the shop had min 2 month tour (where I got my 1030 Garmin).

Depending on where you are, is there a local bike shop with any on display. Or check what the return conditions are on Garmin's web shop (i.e. can you open, try, register, etc. and then 29 days later return for full refund)?

Ian
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MrsHJ
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by MrsHJ »

PH wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 11:33am
If you go with a phone, I'd thoroughly recommend a Quad Lock mount, they're not cheap but having tried several others they are IMO as good as it gets, the Poncho cover takes care of waterproofing.
The above is based on my experience with a Garmin Touring (Though it's just been replaced with an Explore 2) and an Android phone.
Which quad lock mount have you gone with and how is it with a bar bag? I’ll probably mount it to the left hand side between the stem and the grip. I’ve been looking at them for a while and leaning towards getting one for my next tour. Thanks.
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Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

MrsHJ wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 2:08pm
PH wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 11:33am
If you go with a phone, I'd thoroughly recommend a Quad Lock mount, they're not cheap but having tried several others they are IMO as good as it gets, the Poncho cover takes care of waterproofing.
The above is based on my experience with a Garmin Touring (Though it's just been replaced with an Explore 2) and an Android phone.
Which quad lock mount have you gone with and how is it with a bar bag? I’ve been looking at them for a while and leaning towards getting one for my next tour. Thanks.
I watched a CyclingAbout youtube video a few days ago and he was saying how the QuadLock things fail after a period of time, but he also said how he loved them but then need replacing periodically. The one he showed "gone" was the phone case side of the circular mounting things had part broken away.

Relevant but 3:55 from start

Ian
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by PH »

MrsHJ wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 2:08pm
PH wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 11:33am
If you go with a phone, I'd thoroughly recommend a Quad Lock mount,
Which quad lock mount have you gone with and how is it with a bar bag? I’ll probably mount it to the left hand side between the stem and the grip. I’ve been looking at them for a while and leaning towards getting one for my next tour. Thanks.
I have three mounts. The one in most use is on the E-bike I use for deliveries, which also has a bar bag, It's an out front handlebar mount, fitted backwards so it sits above the stem. I think the mount attaches to the bar between stem and KF bracket, I'll have to check (The bike doesn't live at home). I can take a photo if that isn't clear!
Before that, I had the idea of fitting a runners arm mount on top of a bar bag, that's sort of OK, though makes it a bit unpredictable when using touch controls (It's also ugly) Also unlike the others attaching is a two hand job, which is a pain when getting back to the bike with hands full.
My third mount is on a Velcro strip, I think it's intended for racing pushchairs! I have it to easily transfer between bikes that don't have one permanently fitted. I mount that on the stem, there's no room on any of my bikes for my large phone and the bar bag.
The phone connection is the same on all three, very secure.
Psamathe wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 2:10pm he was saying how the QuadLock things fail after a period of time, but he also said how he loved them but then need replacing periodically. The one he showed "gone" was the phone case side of the circular mounting things had part broken away.
Ian
I'd seen that, maybe he's giving it a tougher time than I do! I've had my current phone for over two years, it's on an off the mount on average eighty times a week (Twice per delivery, at the pick up and drop off). Nothing lasts forever, the cases, this one and the one for my previous phone, haven't broken.

My phone is permanently in the case, it's not the easiest to keep removing and it protects the phone anyway. The only downside is if the phone has a curved screen there's a conflict if using a screen protector between that at the screen edge and the edge of the case.
WEBH
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by WEBH »

Hi Ian and Jonathan,
I think I'm getting there with what I need; I'm thinking as you said Jonathan about getting the whole cicerone route loaded before I go, hopefully with assistance from computer owning family. The en route ability of the 1030 as described by Ian I really like the sound of, especially for later on when I abandon the guide.
I've seen the 1030 explore plus online for just under £300, which I'd be happy with, although I'll try and shop local in Dave mellor cycles first.
I do actually have a tablet, quite old now with a rather tired battery. Might this kind of device handle the amount of data for the route downloads? If so I might look at a new one of these as well, which might give me a bit of self sufficiency en route. I just assumed that it would have to be a proper desktop affair, but any advice very welcome.
PH
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by PH »

WEBH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 3:46pm I've seen the 1030 explore plus online for just under £300, which I'd be happy with, although I'll try and shop local in Dave mellor cycles first.
Do different Garmin models have different routing abilities? I'm not 100% sure, but I thought all those of the same generation, with routable mapping, were the same in this regard. There's plenty of reasons you might prefer one over another - screen size, battery life, performance features, cost - I just don't think when it comes to navigation there's any difference.
Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

PH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 4:06pm
WEBH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 3:46pm I've seen the 1030 explore plus online for just under £300, which I'd be happy with, although I'll try and shop local in Dave mellor cycles first.
Do different Garmin models have different routing abilities? I'm not 100% sure, but I thought all those of the same generation, with routable mapping, were the same in this regard. There's plenty of reasons you might prefer one over another - screen size, battery life, performance features, cost - I just don't think when it comes to navigation there's any difference.
It may be. I've been careful to only talk about functionality I know on devices I know. Also there are probably considerations over memory capacity and what maps can be stored and what maps are available free.

Ian
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MrsHJ
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by MrsHJ »

I use my tablet for pretty much everything (fairly basic iPad from around 2019) so I’d think so.

When you’re budgeting for your garmin don’t forget all the other little bits you’re going to need. People tend to think it’s just panniers and cycle gear but I know that I have a fairly specific set up for my bikes eg just for the cockpit with a mirror and specific ergo bars and the bar bag, with map holder, post garmin a basic cycle computer that’s permanently attached, lights and bell- (plus likely the quad lock going forward) before I get to packing up the rear of the bike with super lightweight camping gear etc etc etc etc.

Reminds self to get new cycle jacket and shoes before next tour and quad lock which between them should easily suck up £200-£300.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by MrsHJ »

PH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 3:07pm
I have three mounts. The one in most use is on the E-bike I use for deliveries, which also has a bar bag, It's an out front handlebar mount, fitted backwards so it sits above the stem. I think the mount attaches to the bar between stem and KF bracket, I'll have to check (The bike doesn't live at home). I can take a photo if that isn't clear!
Before that, I had the idea of fitting a runners arm mount on top of a bar bag, that's sort of OK, though makes it a bit unpredictable when using touch controls (It's also ugly) Also unlike the others attaching is a two hand job, which is a pain when getting back to the bike with hands full.
My third mount is on a Velcro strip, I think it's intended for racing pushchairs! I have it to easily transfer between bikes that don't have one permanently fitted. I mount that on the stem, there's no room on any of my bikes for my large phone and the bar bag.
The phone connection is the same on all three, very secure.

I'd seen that, maybe he's giving it a tougher time than I do! I've had my current phone for over two years, it's on an off the mount on average eighty times a week (Twice per delivery, at the pick up and drop off). Nothing lasts forever, the cases, this one and the one for my previous phone, haven't broken.

My phone is permanently in the case, it's not the easiest to keep removing and it protects the phone anyway. The only downside is if the phone has a curved screen there's a conflict if using a screen protector between that at the screen edge and the edge of the case.
Very helpful, thank you. My usage is far less than you and the guy on you tube so my guess is the phone will wear out first and it sounds like the mount will remain useful once that has happened. Reversing the out front sounds like it might be an option for me too. As usual it’s mostly about making best use of available handlebar space. The extension thingie that goes on top of my bar bag attachement isn’t very reliable so I’d rather have my phone directly on the bars.
Last edited by MrsHJ on 4 Dec 2022, 4:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

MrsHJ wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 4:20pm I use my tablet for pretty much everything (fairly basic iPad from around 2019) so I’d think so.
...
Me too. On tour I only take a tablet and except for mid-tour to end month when I first got my 1030 (which was done on device) subsequent tours I use tablet for cycle.travel and then "Send to Garmin" all in web browser with on-device route creation as a backup when power low or internet bad/not available.

OK I take a phone and Kindle but route creation and stuff done using web browser on a tablet - which is now old with dodgy battery.

Ian
WEBH
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by WEBH »

Thanks to all once again, I'm certainly feeling more confident now, with the advice I've been given. I must admit, the whole tech thing has been occupying most of my thoughts, but now I'm actually starting to think about the fun of the trip!
I've been looking at osmand and cycle travel, both seem excellent so I'll crack on.
Thanks MrsHJ for a timely reminder to think about other elements - I've done a bit of cycle camping in the Hebrides years ago, still not sure this time if it's to be tents, roofs or a mixture of both - plenty of stuff elsewhere on the forum on this subject.
I generally pack pretty light so should have some room for the extra stuff, power pack, leads etc.
Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

WEBH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 7:30pm ...
I generally pack pretty light so should have some room for the extra stuff, power pack, leads etc.
I take a Solar panel for charging all my devices (I take a fair number, Garmin, phone, tablet, camera, Kindle with help from a rechargeable battery pack also charged from solar panel). The one I use is https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B012VL20GW but it's no longer available but similar must be around so something to maybe consider. Some campsites have a room avaiable (chairs, sockets, kettle, etc. which can be fine for recharging.

If France, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands camp sites do sometimes have electricity available. Sometimes leave devices on charge on reception overnight but I like to leave early before reception opens. Sometimes people leave battery pack on charge in toilet block overnight risk and I have spoken to people who have had them stolen but not massively expensive of difficult to replace - I've only had to do that twice and was OK.

Ian
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MrsHJ
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by MrsHJ »

WEBH wrote: 4 Dec 2022, 7:30pm Thanks to all once again, I'm certainly feeling more confident now, with the advice I've been given. I must admit, the whole tech thing has been occupying most of my thoughts, but now I'm actually starting to think about the fun of the trip!
I've been looking at osmand and cycle travel, both seem excellent so I'll crack on.
Thanks MrsHJ for a timely reminder to think about other elements - I've done a bit of cycle camping in the Hebrides years ago, still not sure this time if it's to be tents, roofs or a mixture of both - plenty of stuff elsewhere on the forum on this subject.
I generally pack pretty light so should have some room for the extra stuff, power pack, leads etc.
The other thing you need is brain space for the project. I’ve concluded that finishing a transam isn’t for me (having done the first chunk) but I’ll probably go back and do some of the interesting sections I haven’t got to yet. I’m generally not up for more than about a 3 week tour which is why I’m mulling on whether I should bother taking extended leave in say 2024 for EV6 to the Black Sea or whether I’ll not finish it and I’d be better off doing it in 2-3 week segments. I don’t know how to describe the mental resilience part and to what extent I do or don’t have it but definitely some planning on making sure you’ll enjoy it enough to complete it is worthwhile. I’m probably better when cycling with other people- I really enjoy my own company but after about a fortnight I’m ready to be a bit more sociable again.
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