Cycling UK Forum

David2504 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2022, 11:42am Problem with weight training is it’s boring...

Back in 1986 I lost a lot of muscle from my upper body for [reasons] and managed to rebuild it with about 10 minutes' pumping every morning, starting with 2-kilo (yes!) weights and progressing to 10 kilos in the course of about 3 months. Keeping it short made it quite enjoyable rather than a penance and didn't noticeably reduce my energy for the rest of the morning. I used to put the kettle onto a low gas (nowadays I'd use a timer) before starting, and when it boiled I'd knock off and wet the tea so that it would be ready when I came back from the shower.

David2504 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2022, 11:42am Problem with weight training is it’s boring and wastes energy that could be expended doing more interesting things. I occasionally dabble but never stick to a regime for that reason. Of course there’s always old fashioned body weight exercises such as press ups, squats, lunges, tricep dips, sit ups of many variety, planks and bridges.

All good exercises - like lifting weights it's unexciting but as long as it helps you maintain strength it's good.
If you go to a gym you will see people performing those exercises as well as working with weights and machines.

David2504 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2022, 11:42am Problem with weight training is it’s boring and wastes energy that could be expended doing more interesting things. I occasionally dabble but never stick to a regime for that reason. Of course there’s always old fashioned body weight exercises such as press ups, squats, lunges, tricep dips, sit ups of many variety, planks and bridges.

When I worked (spit) - typically in offices - I was often shocked, alarmed, dismayed and aghast at the feeble state of many of my co-workers, even those a decade or so younger. Modern life can melt muscles and everything else in a body.

Many modern sporty activities, including cycling, can still fail to develop the full range of body parts; or develop them in only very limited and specific ways. Weight training is a good substitute for the more generalised exertions that evolved our bodies during that quarter of a million years or more when we wuz hunter-gatherers.

If you read that Groanydad article, you'll read about how weight training develops a lot more than just muscle. It develops everything. Failure to do so will turn many modern folk into those fleshbags of slumped feeblings, who can hardly lift the tissue paper to their nose-drip.

*************
It can be boring but, as with many other potentially demanding but boring sporty activities, doing it with others helps enormously. A bit of camaraderie; some mild competition, the chatter about what occurs .... . Just like going out with the cycling club rather than by yourself.

Old fashioned lunges, press-ups etc. - now they're the essence of boring. Also very limited in range and variation of muscle movements.

Cugel

Anything that adds some muscular reserves would seem to be beneficial given how slowly muscle increases with age but how fast they might decrease due to forced inactivity.

william33 wrote: ↑2 Jan 2023, 11:01am Anything that adds some muscular reserves would seem to be beneficial given how slowly muscle increases with age but how fast they might decrease due to forced inactivity.

Yes easy to lose muscle mass - very hard to increase it.
However one can maintain or increase strength which is my main endeavour.

william33 wrote: ↑2 Jan 2023, 11:01am Anything that adds some muscular reserves would seem to be beneficial given how slowly muscle increases with age but how fast they might decrease due to forced inactivity.

I believe that, unfortunately muscle decreases with age even when staying active due to the bodies changes in hormone levels and decreasing ability to utilise protein efficiently. So you need to work harder to just maintain.
Inactivity can see big changes in a matter of weeks.

Apart from Yoga , brisk walking and cycling ,when the roads aren’t covered in ice , I indulge in weight training . At about 60 , I noticed muscle loss but until retiring 5 years ago , I didn’t do much about it . I was still easily climbing hills but that began to change as I approached 70 . I suppose I’m lucky in that most of the males in my family going back 4 generations are small and wiry and they usually lived to late 80-mid 90 . I don’t remember that any of them cycled or exercised as they aged so probably didn’t notice the fall off in physical performance , I did.
I would encourage all to try weight training , apart from the strength it helps to maintain it also gives an endorphin ( I think that’s what it is ) rush that’s comparable to the feeling of well-being that Yoga gives . I also have a large heavy motorcycle and the weight are my way of holding back the day when it gets to heavy for me and I have to sell it .

I do weight training. I rather enjoy it. I think it’s important to know the differences between weight training goals and what you do to obtain them though. Lower weight (relatively), higher rep work, and lifts that isolate specific muscles, aimed at getting sarcoplasmic hypertrophy are (and I’m massively generalising here I know) what body builders look for. Lower rep, higher weight, compound lifts, aiming for myofibrillar hypertrophy are generally what power lifters do (again massive generalisation).

In my view doing compound lifts, squats and deadlifts are an absolute must, at low repetition with heavy weights is massively beneficial. Evidence from scientific and sports studies backs this up. I can do a full session in just over an hour, 3 times a week, so no long hours in the gym. I also find keeping my lifts in the strength rep end of the scale means it doesn’t impact my cycling and vice versa if I end up doing them too closely to one another. The guardian article references 2 guys right at the end who are worth following up on if you want more info on this stuff or look for Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

Oh poo...I spent so long writing a detailed view that I timed out...so here's a summary:

Cycling on it's own as exercise is likely to leave you musculoskeletally vulnerable to injury ( particularly with age) as it doesn't work enough muscle groups. Luvly legs and aerobic fitness maybe.....but if you spend much of your life sitting at a desk and staring at a computer/ or sofa and telly, beware of Gardening; DIY; pumping up a tyre[*]; making the bed[*]; stuff.... perhaps even a goose going boo when you were not expecting it.

Would be better to discuss " Resistance Training" rather than just weight training. can include weights, but all other forms of resistance training as well. Forget the macho pumping iron thing where it seems size is important. Rather focus on a rounded resistance training regime that works all muscle groups ( and tendons) so they are strong ( not necessarily big). Particularly focus on the core.

Do as I say and not as I do
( I'm a musculoskeletal wreck....but I know what I've done & am doing wrong !)

([*]These being the causes of my most painful injuries in life despite copius amounts of cycling)

Bsteel wrote: ↑3 Jan 2023, 6:17pm

william33 wrote: ↑2 Jan 2023, 11:01am Anything that adds some muscular reserves would seem to be beneficial given how slowly muscle increases with age but how fast they might decrease due to forced inactivity.

I believe that, unfortunately muscle decreases with age even when staying active due to the bodies changes in hormone levels and decreasing ability to utilise protein efficiently. So you need to work harder to just maintain.
Inactivity can see big changes in a matter of weeks.

Muscle mass and power tend to decrease with age, and around 30 years is often quoted as the start of the decline.

But which hormone(s) would that be?

And what does "ability to utilise protein efficiently" mean?

Thanks

Happy New Year

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑5 Jan 2023, 11:06am But which hormone(s) would that be?
And what does "ability to utilise protein efficiently" mean?
Jonathan

Without looking for papers to cite a couple of hormones I would have suggested would be Testosterone and Human Growth, I'm sure there's others and the whole mechanism seems to be a bit of a cascade. I am also thinking from a male bias.
For protein my comment is along the lines of it's harder to break protein apart into amino acids and then utilise those amino acids to rebuild muscle. Not very eloquent I know but hopefully correct.
I can't see the full paper but this may give a fuller explanation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11915910/

Thanks

Jonathan

I was googling on sarcopenia last week. Because it's happening.....Seem to recommend up to 1.25 g protein a day per kg body mass...rather than the general recommendation of 0.75g per kg.

Seemed to be that the sort of protein sypplements that many weight trainers use ( whey powder and loadsa eggs) have generally not proved useful on sarcopenia trials. However I haven't read through any of the papers...

Items I found seem to say that protein as part of recovery after exercise helped....But when taken with carbohydrate it helped less......so carbo-loading for an event or on a strenuous tour..may undermine muscle maintenance ? Not sure how much carbohydrate for muscle recovery after exercise is OK.

Omega 3 and vitamin D help + plus generally healthy diet with lots of fruit and veg, little red meat ...plenty of anti- oxidants.

More checking and cross- checking to do.. for me... but I suggest that it is very sensible for othersto read up on.....preferably before they get to 45/50

hoogerbooger wrote: ↑5 Jan 2023, 7:48pm I was googling on sarcopenia last week. Because it's happening.....Seem to recommend up to 1.25 g protein a day per kg body mass...rather than the general recommendation of 0.75g per kg.

Seemed to be that the sort of protein sypplements that many weight trainers use ( whey powder and loadsa eggs) have generally not proved useful on sarcopenia trials. However I haven't read through any of the papers...

Items I found seem to say that protein as part of recovery after exercise helped....But when taken with carbohydrate it helped less......so carbo-loading for an event or on a strenuous tour..may undermine muscle maintenance ? Not sure how much carbohydrate for muscle recovery after exercise is OK.

Omega 3 and vitamin D help + plus generally healthy diet with lots of fruit and veg, little red meat ...plenty of anti- oxidants.

More checking and cross- checking to do.. for me... but I suggest that it is very sensible for othersto read up on.....preferably before they get to 45/50

Caveating the whole of this with it's only internet discussions and I have nothing scientific to substantiate it.

I have seen protein recomendations now as high as 1g / lb, I know previously there had been concern about a diet too high in protein causing health problems. Achieved using whole foods with Whey protein to make up the total.
As to timing, that last 'research' I came across suggested there was little difference between pre and post workout but more a case of just consuming enough during the day. If you want to dissapear down a rabbit hole then the role that protein plays in triggering mTOR via Leucine is an interesting one to try.
Trying to add a little formal science to back up the discussion.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257597/

You would never eat just one vegetable. Cycling on its own is not enough. If you cycle for 2 hours in the morning and sit on a chair for the rest of the day Doctors say this is unhealthy. The problem is TIME. Pack a set of 2,3.4 kg weights and do 5 mins a couple of times a day
When watching TV IS GOOD
*************************************
I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage.