Enforcing driving bans

[thirdcrank]

This case caught my attention. It involves a disqualified driver who was due at court but was caught on his way there, driving at 60mph in a 30 limit. The implication seems to be that had he driven more slowly, his reoffending might have gone undetected.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... g/?ref=msn

[Barrowman]

I always used to follow convicted disqualified drivers from court ( before I retired from the force) and on 2 occasions they had the cheek to climb into a car and drive away. They were naturally invited fir a little chat and further charges .
We used to get briefed on Disqualified Drivers who lived on our area with details of any known vehicles.
There used to be a facility on the DVLA database to put an 'Interest' report on a vehicle for a number of reasons , potential disqualified driver used to be one as far as I can recall.

[horizon]

My own thinking on this is that driving while disqualified (DWD) is a much more serious offence than some people give it credit for. In the case under discussion there was another serious offence involved (speeding) but even when not, DWD undermines the whole basis for punishing motoring crimes and misdemeanors.

Disqualification is an effective, inexpensive and appropriate way of punishing what might have been dangerous behaviour on the roads. It also protects the public and in particular, vulnerable road users from drivers who may be a threat to the safety of others while driving, such as the person mentioned in the article. It also avoids such problems as the inability to pay fines, how to properly punish careless or dangerous driving and the negative effects of prison (in the first instance).

I would propose that DWD should carry an automatic, albeit short, sentence of imprisonment, as seems to have happened here. I have heard it said that DWD is very difficult to trace and prosecute but it seems from this case that that is not always true.

[Barrowman]

Yes very difficult to detect a disqualified driver on the road.
I understand that Birmingham is the nations capital for uninsured drivers.
As with all law, all well and good IF there is effective enforcement.
There is , in my view ,a distinct lack of road Policing Enforcement.
And a noticeable decline In driving standards on the road.

[PM999]

One of my guilty little pleasures is occasionally watching "Police Interceptors" on TV. I am staggered at the sheer volume of offences of driving while disqualified, driving without an appropriate licence and, most frequently, driving without insurance. It seems to be endemic in the UK. What does seem apparent is that ANPR cameras, both static & in patrol cars, cough up a fair number of successful stops. The overall frequency of offending remains depressing, however.

[fastpedaller]

If the convicted drivers have a driving ban it should be effective, otherwise there is no change and the danger to others using the roads remains. Perhaps if the convicted was told in no uncertain terms that their (for example) 2 month ban would be a 2 month automatic imprisonment if they drive whilst banned, their attention and compliance would follow?

[horizon]

If the convicted drivers have a driving ban it should be effective, otherwise there is no change and the danger to others using the roads remains. Perhaps if the convicted was told in no uncertain terms that their (for example) 2 month ban would be a 2 month automatic imprisonment if they drive whilst banned, their attention and compliance would follow?

Yes, I would agree, with the proviso that the imprisonment term should be fixed (say three months) as imprisonment for the whole period of disqualification might be 10 years! This would only be for the simple offence of DWD - other offences such as causing death while DWD might of course be punished more severely (and are more likely to be discovered). It is the low level DWD that I am concerned about and is much more insidious than perhaps realised in undermining the usefulness of driving bans.

There might also be perhaps a standard reward (say £500) for the reporting of someone known to be DWD.

[Stevek76]

Obviously the elephant in the room is policing cuts meaning RPUs are scantly staffed in most areas but even if that were rectified there are other things that could help:

ANPR could be utilised a fair bit more than it is (i.e. not just the polices' own mobile units but the fixed networks used by highways authorities for traffic monitoring and CAZ etc). Obviously doesn't stop uninsured drivers driving otherwise insured cars but would certainly help flag some up and be able to establish patterns of movement to aid easy pickups.

Similarly a long suggested option is that filling stations should be able and required to check plates against MID/tax & MOT databases before allowing the car to be filled.


As for penalties, they need to be rather more severe, as well as looking at alternative non-custodial sentences in some cases that would still have the desired effect. E.g. electronic tag monitoring. With modern tech it should be fairly easy to pickup when a right foot is actually do the driving.

[Mike Sales]

How about impounding the vehicle being driven, for increasing periods if the offence is repeated?
If the vehicle does not belong to the offender then the owner is responsible for ensuring that they lend only to qualified drivers. If the offender deceives the owner, this must be Taking Without the Owners (informed) Consent, an extra offence.

[Barrowman]

Disqualified driver is also automatically No Insurance. Uninsured vehicles are routinely impounded and are only released on production of the Insurance and the relevant impound fees.
If vehicle belongs to a third party they have to decide if the driver had their permission, which will give them a charge of Permitting Vehicle to be used with No Insurance , or not in which case the driver will have an Unauthorised Taking /Theft of a vehicle charge in addition to their other issues.

[Mike Sales]

Disqualified driver is also automatically No Insurance. Uninsured vehicles are routinely impounded and are only released on production of the Insurance and the relevant impound fees.
If vehicle belongs to a third party they have to decide if the driver had their permission, which will give them a charge of Permitting Vehicle to be used with No Insurance , or not in which case the driver will have an Unauthorised Taking /Theft of a vehicle charge in addition to their other issues.

Thanks Good. I would suggest that the impounding should be for a punitively long period. Bad cases should result in the vehicle being converted into a neat cube.

[Barrowman]

The recovery fee , which falls to the owner, is pretty steep, and there is a daily charge for storage too.
A prolonged storage would soon rack the bill up above what most vehicles are worth. Owners will often sign them over as it is cheaper than collecting them .
Before impounded vehicles were dealt with outside the Police they were often a nightmare , littering Police Station Yards ,often abandoned, labrynthine civil court proceedings to allow disposal of them.

[Valbrona]

I occasionally check the 'News' section on the website of my local police service. I would like a section on the website showing drivers currently serving a driving ban and their addresses, information that is of course already public owing to someone's conviction in a court of law. Then if their ban is 'public', hopefully that will make them reluctant to take to the roads.

Oh, and let's give them an automatic prison sentnce for DWD.

[millimole]

Disqualified driver is also automatically No Insurance. Uninsured vehicles are routinely impounded and are only released on production of the Insurance and the relevant impound fees.
If vehicle belongs to a third party they have to decide if the driver had their permission, which will give them a charge of Permitting Vehicle to be used with No Insurance , or not in which case the driver will have an Unauthorised Taking /Theft of a vehicle charge in addition to their other issues.

I would imagine that having to declare any one of these, let alone multiples, would increase your insurance premium.
Hence the costs rack up even more - alternatively the risks of driving uninsured appear more attractive initially, but the risks of doing so would be greater in the long term.