Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

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Philip Benstead
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Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

Do we need to be concern?

I placed this like a cycle instructors site , the discussion was interesting.

Should these machines be treated as bicycle, they go up to 15mph and 14 year old can ride them.

It is possible to make them go upto 60mph.

https://www.ekobikes.co.uk/electric-bikes/model-15/
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
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Nearholmer
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Nearholmer »

If it complies with the legislation in terms of motor power, need to pedal, and speed limit, then it’s an e-bike, even if it is covered in plastic bits and other gubbins to look like a moped.

But, is it compliant with legislation in the UK? The description mentions “twist and go”, which I don’t think is, but I’d defer to greater expertise on that. I thought the power limit on T&G was lower, to cover things like wheelchairs, but I may be wrong.
Jdsk
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Jdsk »

Cycling UK's current (!) guide to "e-bike-like" machines:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-libr ... egulations

Jonathan
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

Well, I live in central London am a cycle instructor.

There as been a large increase in cycling London, but unfortunately
there is sizeable number of bicycle rider who's ridding style is much to be disired including cycle courier's and the like.

With the advent and increase ebikes and electric bike there is the added dimensions of speed and weight in the case the collision.

There is the added danger of escooters and skateboards and similar devices going high speeds with limited braking control.
Therefore, I am fear that responsible cyclist will lumped in with these group and have restriction place upon us.
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horizon
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by horizon »

It weighs 40 kg which might make for some interesting cycling in hilly areas.
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Stevek76
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Stevek76 »

As I understand it, ebikes that are simply limited to 250W continuous via electronic means that can easily be switched off are not legal under the UK and EU regs.

The 250W is what the motor is capable of, not what it's being used at. However like the driving uninsured issue, police don't tend to have the resources to deal with the frequent flouting of such regs (see also private e-scooters)
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

Stevek76 wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 12:16pm As I understand it, ebikes that are simply limited to 250W continuous via electronic means that can easily be switched off are not legal under the UK and EU regs.

The 250W is what the motor is capable of, not what it's being used at. However like the driving uninsured issue, police don't tend to have the resources to deal with the frequent flouting of such regs (see also private e-scooters)
I understand from a friend you upgrade to I 1000w, so can go faster and longer.
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rjb
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by rjb »

Philip Benstead wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 3:43pm
Stevek76 wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 12:16pm As I understand it, ebikes that are simply limited to 250W continuous via electronic means that can easily be switched off are not legal under the UK and EU regs.

The 250W is what the motor is capable of, not what it's being used at. However like the driving uninsured issue, police don't tend to have the resources to deal with the frequent flouting of such regs (see also private e-scooters)
I understand from a friend you upgrade to I 1000w, so can go faster and longer.
For the same battery upgrading to 1kW will certainly make you faster but will drain your battery 4 times faster than a legal version. Probably reducing the distance one can cover as well.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
pwa
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by pwa »

I doubt it is legal. It is basically like an e-scooter with a seat, and e-scooters are still not legal unless hired.
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cycleruk
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by cycleruk »

pwa wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 5:11pm I doubt it is legal. It is basically like an e-scooter with a seat, and e-scooters are still not legal unless hired.
It looks to have cranks and pedals. So not a scooter.
But it says twist and go so doesn't need to pedalled to go.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
Nearholmer
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Nearholmer »

To me, it looks like a moped made for a country where they still have to have nominal pedals, being de-rated (probably in a super-easily reversed way) and sold into the UK. So, it probably is legal somewhere, but probably not here. Again though, I’d defer to an expert.

The website is very peculiar too. Can’t find any contact details, address etc on it, the links to other languages and to other pages don’t seem to work, and the whole thing looks as if it was put together in 2019 and hasn’t been touched since. The phone number is a non-geographic one and when you call it, it goes to the voicemail box of a mobile ‘phone. Oh, and the name ekobikes is very similar to the better known ecobikes. Call me suspicious if you will ……

They can’t spell either, rendering ‘pedal’ as ‘peddle’.
basingstoke123
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by basingstoke123 »

Nearholmer wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 7:15pm The website is very peculiar too. Can’t find any contact details, address etc on it, the links to other languages and to other pages don’t seem to work, and the whole thing looks as if it was put together in 2019 and hasn’t been touched since. The phone number is a non-geographic one and when you call it, it goes to the voicemail box of a mobile ‘phone. Oh, and the name ekobikes is very similar to the better known ecobikes. Call me suspicious if you will ……

They can’t spell either, rendering ‘pedal’ as ‘peddle’.
This is not an actual business.

Agreed - it looks suspicious. Although on further thought, it might just be someone playing at website design? You cannot actually order anything, as there are no payment methods available on the check-out / payment page. The customer service phone number is 0800 1234 567 (read that number again, if you didn't get it).

A quick search on Companies House reveals:
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... q=ekobikes

EKOBIKES LIMITED
09630816 - Dissolved on 22 November 2016
63 Alexander Road, Essex, United Kingdom, SS1 1EY

which pre-dates the current website but post-dates the first domain registration. Unusually, there are no associated records - directors, annual returns, etc. There are no other similar results. This might be unrelated to the website (people do not always check if a name has already been registered for a domain).

Domain registration - did not find a registrant (using whois.domaintools.com). Did find:

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 26-Aug-2011
Expiry date: 26-Aug-2025
Last updated: 27-Feb-2022

I am guessing that someone paid for the domain registration and hosting for several years, and has since forgotten about it.

Conclusions?

This is not an actual (current) business.
It might be someone showcasing their website abilities.
It might be a placeholder for a past or future business idea (genuine or scam).
Nearholmer
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Nearholmer »

Interesting. Good detective work.

So, did this “bike” actually materialise at a training course, or is this a hypothetical example of what instructors might be faced with?

I ask, because I’m now beginning to wonder whether any were actually imported or sold in the UK. If you look at the on-line manual, one photo in it does look almost certainly UK, so I’m guessing at least one.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Dec 2022, 8:44am Interesting. Good detective work.

So, did this “bike” actually materialise at a training course, or is this a hypothetical example of what instructors might be faced with?

I ask, because I’m now beginning to wonder whether any were actually imported or sold in the UK. If you look at the on-line manual, one photo in it does look almost certainly UK, so I’m guessing at least one.
Here's a cheap one


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 897304861/
Last edited by Philip Benstead on 24 Dec 2022, 11:06am, edited 1 time in total.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
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Nearholmer
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Nearholmer »

5 what?

5 turned up at courses?

Maybe the first module on the course should be “what is and isn’t legally an EAPC?”, and if the answer is “not bikes with a twist and go facility” (needs an expert to say, but presumably CTC has an expert), then tell anyone who has such a thing “sorry, your bike isn’t eligible for this course; perhaps try an ACU course instead”.
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