Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Dec 2022, 10:09am 5 what?

5 turned up at courses?

Maybe the first module on the course should be “what is and isn’t legally an EAPC?”, and if the answer is “not bikes with a twist and go facility” (needs an expert to say, but presumably CTC has an expert), then tell anyone who has such a thing “sorry, your bike isn’t eligible for this course; perhaps try an ACU course instead”.
I suggest that with a BMX with one brake, I got told off for being blinked.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
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axel_knutt
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by axel_knutt »

Philip Benstead wrote: 24 Dec 2022, 9:15am Here's a cheap one

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 897304861/
Look how far apart the pedals are on that! Good luck nursing your hip problems riding one.
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Manc33
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Manc33 »

I'd argue it's less likely to be illegal since it has built-in lights.
horizon wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 12:09pm It weighs 40 kg which might make for some interesting cycling in hilly areas.
:lol:

Well they say the range is "20 to 25 miles" on it and that's probably on the flat so you can't go very far if it's hilly.

"The motor has also been upgraded to a more powerful 250W to harmonise with the new EU legislation".

At 40 KG that thing does not have a chance. Even 500W wouldn't cut it and I'm not even sure if 1000W would.
We'll always be together, together on electric bikes.
Stevek76
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Stevek76 »

Philip Benstead wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 3:43pm I understand from a friend you upgrade to I 1000w, so can go faster and longer.
Depends on the nature of that upgrade. If the motor is rated for 1000w even on the 250w version then it is not legal.

The 250w version would only be legal if it had a lower rated motor and the upgrade was physically swapping out the motor for a higher rated model. (of course, post upgrade it is no longer legally an ebike and instead must satisfy the same requirements as a moped)
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harriedgary
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by harriedgary »

The operator of an E RIDER Model 15 is not required to provide a breath or blood sample
I know
11 Cycling when under influence of drink or drugs
(1)A person who, when riding a bicycle or tricycle, not being a motor vehicle, on a road or other public place, is unfit to ride through drink or drugs shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding thirty pounds, or in the case of a second or subsequent conviction to a fine not exceeding thirty pounds or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months.
But how exactly does an h'officer of the leu decide you're too peshed to cycle?
cycle tramp
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by cycle tramp »

Not this one.. because it looks like a scooter and traffic police will pull anyone they see riding it without a helmet.. just like they did in the 1950's when a bicycle manufacturers launched a bicycle which looked like a scooter way back then...

...however we do have to be concerned about where e-bikes are leading us in general...

After several years the UCI are looking at rules about gravel bikes and long distance riding events (which has spilt the community somewhat, which up until now has always had a 'run what you brung' mentality and has seen competitors race on everything from 80's and 90's mountain bikes, to carbon fibre full suspension rigs and a good dose of drop 'barred bikes running ever favour of frame material and tyres ranging from 27.5 to 29 plus sizes)... at the moment there's a feeling that the UCI will stop all this and rather like 'his dark materials' it might be enough of a breakaway to see the UCI be seen as a bunch of meading Europeans...

However if the UCI is successful, they will have electric bikes next firmly in their sights - the market share is too big not for them to do this.. After that, we can look forward to cyclists attempting to race their electric bikes in areas including cyclepaths which are completely unsuitable... thus sealing every cyclists fate in regards to registration and insurance...
It's time to go :-)
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

I have a story, today I walk aing alone pavement beside a road when

approaching a side road on my right alone came 2 noisy young person say 20 yo on 2 2 wheeled motorised machines going about say between 15 to 20 mph. Their machines were built from 1970s low grade mountain bikes affixed with 2 stroke engines. These 2 were on the road having a race, the engine emitted smoke

A little later after my walk with my friend we returned on the

same bit of pavement, just pass the junction we saw them before the 2 person came toward on the pavement, I held my ground forcing them bump down on the road on the wrong side, fortunately nothing was coming.


If I or my friend had been hit, it would bern painful.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
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Nearholmer
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Nearholmer »

I was in he bank the other day and a young guy came in with a modern-ish mountain bike, all rigged up with obviously home-made battery set and controller, the rear wheel having a large diameter hub motor that he must have fitted himself.

Although a bit bodgy in jace, it was clearly functional and the guy was concerned enough abut it’s welfare to bring it indoors.

He was wearing full-face m/c helmet, and looking at the motor on the bike I’d say it was rated well ver 250W. The thing looked “twist and go”, I don’t think it had a chain or gears. No registration plate, and my guess is that it wasn’t something anyone would issue an MOT certificate for.

I couldn’t decide whether I was deeply impressed by his resourcefulness, or worried about the safety f him and others. Both, I think.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

I forgot to mention, we walked a local park, whilst there I hear a load nosie, but couldn't tell the origin, a little later arriving a the other side of the park I saw a group of adults with young person say

7 years of age they place this young person
a small petrol driven motorbike. Off she went across the grass.


These 2 incidence today IMHO raise important issues.

What do others think?
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
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bikes4two
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by bikes4two »

Not purely related to the subject matter, but wisper Bikes of Sevenoaks now sell DVSA Type Approved e-bikes that are true 'twist and go' (no pedalling required).

See this link here for more information.

It would be interesting how a DVSA inspector would react to someone turning up with a 'vehicle' like the subject matter of this post, looking for approval?
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Philip Benstead »

Last edited by Philip Benstead on 25 Jan 2023, 10:49am, edited 1 time in total.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
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iandusud
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by iandusud »

bikes4two wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 8:16pm Not purely related to the subject matter, but wisper Bikes of Sevenoaks now sell DVSA Type Approved e-bikes that are true 'twist and go' (no pedalling required).

See this link here for more information.
Does this mean that the law has changed with regards to ebikes being required to pedalled when under electric assist?
iandusud
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by iandusud »

horizon wrote: 23 Dec 2022, 12:09pm It weighs 40 kg which might make for some interesting cycling in hilly areas.
My cargo bike weighs over 30Kg unloaded and I have carried up to 70kg plus my own weight. I can assure you that the 48V rear hub motor can cope with it perfectly adequately. I have also pedalled it up some fairly steep hills unassisted when loaded. It does require a low gear and some patience, but I'm used to touring with camping gear on a tandem!
Jdsk
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concerned?

Post by Jdsk »

iandusud wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 10:32am
bikes4two wrote: 2 Jan 2023, 8:16pm Not purely related to the subject matter, but wisper Bikes of Sevenoaks now sell DVSA Type Approved e-bikes that are true 'twist and go' (no pedalling required).

See this link here for more information.
Does this mean that the law has changed with regards to ebikes being required to pedalled when under electric assist?
I don't think so, only that they are using a different category (L1e) and Type Approval:
https://wisperbikes.com/full-throttle-option/

I'm looking forward to hearing from an expert...

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Pete Owens
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Re: Is this a bicycle - do we need to be concern?

Post by Pete Owens »

So it is (correctly) classified as a motor vehicle rather than a bicycle.
And to ride such a vehicle you will need to comply with the laws relating to mopeds.

ie you will need to be over 16. You will need to hold a driving licence (or a provisional licence and display L plates). It will need number plates and you will not be able to ride at places where motors are prohibited. You will need insurance.
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