Parking - Why?

[pwa]

Somebody was saying most drivers park on pavements. If that means most drivers have put two wheels on a pavement at some time, I'm sure that is true. But if it means most drivers do it as a default when parking alongside a kerb, I'm not convinced. Take this narrow street in South Wales:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.61836 ... 384!8i8192
About 13 cars parked, and at a glance I can only see two wheels on the pavement, and even in that case they are only just on. That suggests that the people in that street value being able to walk on the pavement.
Another street nearby:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.62243 ... 384!8i8192
And just around the corner, some very neat parking:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.62309 ... 384!8i8192

A friend of mine lives just outside Kettering Town centre.Old bay-windowed type terraced housing with about 18" of front garden.All parking is permit holders only and they get a ticket if their vehicle is not fully on the road.Maybe a similar situation in your links?

The pics I linked to are in a more relaxed situation, not close to a town centre. So no non-locals dumping their cars on a street where they don't live so that they can park for free while they go to the shops. Nobody who doesn't live in the streets I linked to, or who isn't delivering or doing a job there, would bother parking there. Even so, because the houses are narrow and terraced, there is only one spot in front of each house, which won't be enough for some households. Fortunately there are some overspill parking areas beyond the end of some of those streets. Occasionally, whilst doing jobs, I have had to take larger vehicles down streets like that and it can be nerve wracking squeezing between two ranks of wing mirrors with an inch or two either side.

But the interesting thing is that on streets where two ranks of parked cars can exist opposite each other whilst still leaving a channel up the middle, most drivers aren't putting wheels on the pavement. Some are, but if you look at the quickly selected samples I gave, most aren't. Which gives me the feeling that most drivers see a value in having an unobstrucuted pavement. On Brown Street, which is narrower than the Google image makes it look, only one car out of about a dozen has wheels in the kerb.

[Mike Sales]

I have just looked at the cover of Abbey Road, a record released in 1969 by some defunct pop group.
I notice that the Beetle (the VW that is) has two wheels on the pavement.
I cannot see any zig-zag lines, so I suppose that they had not yet been invented.

[Ron]

Curb or kerb? I never know which spelling to go for.

I prefer kerb, thanks for asking
Regarding 2 wheels on road and 2 wheels on pavement, I believe the intention is to irritate both road users and pavement users.

[pwa]

Curb or kerb? I never know which spelling to go for.

I prefer kerb, thanks for asking
Regarding 2 wheels on road and 2 wheels on pavement, I believe the intention is to irritate both road users and pavement users.

I'll try to use your preferred spelling from now on.

I know some people hate car wheels on pavements in all circumstances, but I look at it in a more pragmatic way. Firstly, I ask myself, is it necessary? Would another vehicle passing be prevented by having all four wheels on the road? If not, then all four wheels ought to be on the road. Secondly, has enough room been left for people using the pavement? Where there is no reason for it, I'm irritated by pavement parking. But I grudgingly accept it where there seems to be some justification and where people can still get past on foot okay. And it isn't against the law here.

So the car in the OP is parked in a way that, for me, isn't justified by the circumstances. And I can't remember when I last parked my own car with wheels on a pavement. It is something I try to avoid doing. But I live on a street where parking is easy.

[tatanab]

And I can't remember when I last parked my own car with wheels on a pavement. It is something I try to avoid doing.

That is the thing - you analyse and think about what you are doing whereas so many consider pavement driving a part of everyday parking and is something they do automatically. No thought involved.

[drossall]

Secondly, has enough room been left for people using the pavement?

Just to be provocative, the pavement is that part of the overall highway that the proper authorities have allocated for the specific use of pedestrians. So any pavement parking is arrogating some of that allocated section. Of course, I can afford to write that because we have a drive that is several cars long (being one of the few houses on this estate not to have built an extension on that part of our land).

[pwa]

Secondly, has enough room been left for people using the pavement?

Just to be provocative, the pavement is that part of the overall highway that the proper authorities have allocated for the specific use of pedestrians. So any pavement parking is arrogating some of that allocated section. Of course, I can afford to write that because we have a drive that is several cars long (being one of the few houses on this estate not to have built an extension on that part of our land).

And we have ample on-street parking with a small driveway too, and no possible need for putting wheels on pavements. But I am aware that others are not so lucky. I know streets where parking is very fraught. And where a bit of compromise is necessary. We have some fairly extreme streets in Wales:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.63032 ... 384!8i8192
There are about 24 houses up that street, with no possible parking for most of them. So if you turn around and look the other way you see where some people have parked on pavements in the few places possible.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.63032 ... 384!8i8192
I am glad I don't have the stress of trying to park in a place like that when I get home. And that is why I don't take an absolute position on this.

[Stevek76]

Part of the issue here is that this has been left so long. You're not allowed to leave similar sized other items of your personal property on the road or pavement, and historically leaving your horse and cart there was also a no. However gradually became tolerated in a little by little manner.

Unfortunately the longer this is left, the more painful it will be to address. Google streetview is now old enough (about 14 years) that clear differences can be seen on streets just in its own history.

Still, a ban is the best default in my view, if local authorities want to permit it in places then they can do but we can't have the right of dumping ever growing motor vehicles on public space trumping that of wheelchair users and buggy/pram pushers to get about safely.

[pwa]

Part of the issue here is that this has been left so long. You're not allowed to leave similar sized other items of your personal property on the road or pavement, and historically leaving your horse and cart there was also a no. However gradually became tolerated in a little by little manner.

Unfortunately the longer this is left, the more painful it will be to address. Google streetview is now old enough (about 14 years) that clear differences can be seen on streets just in its own history.

Still, a ban is the best default in my view, if local authorities want to permit it in places then they can do but we can't have the right of dumping ever growing motor vehicles on public space trumping that of wheelchair users and buggy/pram pushers to get about safely.

But would you just want a ban in absolutely every instance, or would you want that implemented alongside the provision of reasonable alternative parking? In the example I gave above, the average income in that location (average house price around £55k) is well below the national average, and it is people living in areas like that who would be hit hardest by an outright ban. It would be a minor incovenience at most for people in affluent areas. Taking that example, I'd want to see something done to make formal parking areas nearby.

[Mike Sales]

Part of the issue here is that this has been left so long. You're not allowed to leave similar sized other items of your personal property on the road or pavement, and historically leaving your horse and cart there was also a no. However gradually became tolerated in a little by little manner.

Putting in hangars for bicycles to be stored in roadside areas where cars are parked is regarded by motorists as an outrage and something to be resisted.

The council has been accused of giving a misleading version of events after residents who objected to a bike hangar in their street were threatened with the police.

Contractors were “surrounded by a lot of unhappy residents”, according to Brighton and Hove City Council, and they were owed a duty of care.

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/202 ... angar-row/

Cf. reaction to Extinction Rebellion stopping traffic as a protest. This Government is proposing new laws to "keep the traffic moving."

[Stevek76]

I did say that local authorities would be able to allow it in places. Fairly sure the option 3 proposal from the dft (which is England only of course) was essentially that. Obviously some funding and time would be needed for councils to sort themselves out.

However i think that needs to be the default else nothing is really going to happen and this will just get worse.

And yes the average house prices might be low in your example but I'd be surprised if everyone there owns a car. Any elderly needing to use mobility scooters to get about?

[pwa]

I did say that local authorities would be able to allow it in places. Fairly sure the option 3 proposal from the dft (which is England only of course) was essentially that. Obviously some funding and time would be needed for councils to sort themselves out.

However i think that needs to be the default else nothing is really going to happen and this will just get worse.

And yes the average house prices might be low in your example but I'd be surprised if everyone there owns a car. Any elderly needing to use mobility scooters to get about?

I think it has to be a case by case approach here in South Wales. My own street, fine, no problems with a ban. People can manage without pavement parking here. On other streets things are more difficult and a nuanced approach is best, possibly with investment in new layouts that attempt to make things work for everyone. This layout seems to be working well:https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.62883 ... 384!8i8192 And yes, of course we need to ensure mobility scooters etc can get about safely. Although in the example I gave, I suspect they already use the road rather than the pavement, and would do so regardless of parked cars.

The example I gave, with cars parked on pavement, is unusual within that neighbourhood. If you move around other, nearby streets you will find relatively few cars parked on pavements. And that suggests that in that area pavement parking is seen as something to be avoided. It isn't being seen as acceptable where there isn't a good reason for it. So a ban might work there if the minority of "exceptional case" streets were given some remedial investment first.

[SimonCelsa]

Perhaps the thread should be retitled “Pavement Parking - Why?”.

Both of my vehicles are always parked on my drive when I’m at home, inconveniencing nobody except the Postman, who insists on trying to squeeze between the gap between the Campervan and the house, rather than walking an extra 3 yards around the back of the van. Yes, pavement parking is one of my pet hates.

extra 3 yards multiplied by 500 houses (maybe) he delivers to equals about 1500 yards extra on his/her delivery.........almost a mile or another 20 minutes!!

Marginal gains and all that!!

[Cugel]

Car parking on streets, pavements and elsewhere has many deleterious effects besides inconveniencing a pedestrian or another driver negotiating the car-littered street.

* There's the general issue of the tin litter everywhere. Aesthetically, its an eyesore that 's often the catalyst for the growth of other dump-it eyesores, from piles of building detritus to heaps of general rubbish that moulder on the spot for months or even years.

* There's the amplification effect on the energy consumption of other vehicles, as the negotiations of a car-infested roadway causes multiple slowings and accelerations along the way.

* There's the much increased danger in crossing the road, as various vehicles obscure the view of pedestrians trying to do so, along with the dangers of being forced to walk into the road, around a parked car that's left no room along the pavement.

* There's the effective banning of the street child-play of my youth, when cars (either parked or driven) within housing estates were rare! Or any other street activity besides car littering and thrusting.

* And several more.

***********
It's always irked me that streets, residential streets in particular, can be annexed by car owners, with many of the above effects. At bottom, they've stolen a public space for their private use and often added a large dollop of inconvenience for all others (including other car owners/drivers) at no expense to themselves.

*********
What's the solution? I don't have a nice one that will please all the on-street parker/voters. But there is one that'll displease 'em (but perhaps only temporarily, until they too come to enjoy the pleasures and facilities of car-free environments) - make car owners pay all the externalised costs, as others have suggested, including a large charge for any on-street parking, perhaps equal to the cost of building a dedicated car park for them all on the large space half a mile away where the supermarket has been knocked down. (Yes, another policy I'd have if dictator ).

Cugel, with a gush of my anti-car hormonal vent.

[Jdsk]

Part of the issue here is that this has been left so long. You're not allowed to leave similar sized other items of your personal property on the road or pavement, and historically leaving your horse and cart there was also a no. However gradually became tolerated in a little by little manner.

Putting in hangars for bicycles to be stored in roadside areas where cars are parked is regarded by motorists as an outrage and something to be resisted.

The council has been accused of giving a misleading version of events after residents who objected to a bike hangar in their street were threatened with the police.

Contractors were “surrounded by a lot of unhappy residents”, according to Brighton and Hove City Council, and they were owed a duty of care.

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/202 ... angar-row/

Cf. reaction to Extinction Rebellion stopping traffic as a protest. This Government is proposing new laws to "keep the traffic moving."

bike-hangar-Cissbury-Road-Hove.jpg

Where does that story mention the objectors being "motorists"? It describes them as "residents". And that one bike hangar was welcomed.

Thanks

Jonathan