Cycling UK Forum

I suffered a slipped disc a couple of years ago. It kept me off the bike for a month. To take the strain off my fragile back I fitted a higher stem to raise the bars so I could ride in an upward Netherlands style. This works well for me. However, on a couple of occasions, I lost my balance when I stopped. I wondered if the slipped disc might have made my left leg shorter than the right. Fortunately there was no traffic around when I suffered these sideways 'comedy falls'. However, knowing I might not be so lucky next time, I dropped the saddle about an inch so when I stop, I can place the sole of my shoe flat on the ground - i.e. no longer on my tip-toes as I learned to ride nearly 60 years ago. Riding with the saddle too low kind of works for me in that it ensures I don't keel over when I stop at the lights. However the too-low saddle cramps my pedalling style and can cause mild knee pain. I therefore got to thinking - would replacing my bike's 170mm cranks with 175 or 180mm cranks help compensate for the too-low saddle and help me enjoy a smoother pedalling cadence, spinning circles like a proper cyclist again? I would greatly appreciate any feedback you might have. Thanks.

Yes, legs are often different lengths.

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 6:51pm However, knowing I might not be so lucky next time, I dropped the saddle about an inch so when I stop, I can place the sole of my shoe flat on the ground - i.e. no longer on my tip-toes as I learned to ride nearly 60 years ago.

Is that while still sitting on the saddle? How much of the other foot can you put on the ground?

And are you routinely staying seated while stopping?

Jonathan

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 6:51pmHowever the too-low saddle cramps my pedalling style and can cause mild knee pain. I therefore got to thinking - would replacing my bike's 170mm cranks with 175 or 180mm cranks help compensate for the too-low saddle and help me enjoy a smoother pedalling cadence, spinning circles like a proper cyclist again?

Longer cranks will mean your feet are travelling round a larger circle. The low point will be 5/10mm below that of your existing cranks but the high point will be 5/10mm above. It would feel different, there's no guarantee that different would be better.

I’m no bike-fit expert, but I’m very sceptical of the business of raising the bars as a way to get an upright stance, unless they were notably low, significantly below saddle level, in the first place. I see a fair few older ‘leisure’ riders positioned that way, with hands quite high, and it makes no sense to me.

If you look at bikes that are designed to be ridden upright, English Roadsters, Dutch Bikes etc, they achieve uprightness by bringing the hand position quite close to the body, but not very high in comparison with the seat level. The rider has arms in quite a relaxed position, slightly bent, and certainly not significantly raised.

Having ranted on about that …..

Have you considered one of those “flat foot”/”crank forward” bikes that have the rider position heading towards recumbent? They look rubbish for hill climbing, but if where you cycle is reasonably flat …,

Jdsk wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 7:12pm Yes, legs are often different lengths.

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 6:51pm However, knowing I might not be so lucky next time, I dropped the saddle about an inch so when I stop, I can place the sole of my shoe flat on the ground - i.e. no longer on my tip-toes as I learned to ride nearly 60 years ago.

Is that while still sitting on the saddle? How much of the other foot can you put on the ground?

And are you routinely staying seated while stopping?

Jonathan

Thanks for taking the time to reply Jonathan. I sit on the saddle at stop lights with my right leg on the RH pedal and my left leg on the ground. I stay seated when I stop.

gaz wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 7:49pm

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 6:51pmHowever the too-low saddle cramps my pedalling style and can cause mild knee pain. I therefore got to thinking - would replacing my bike's 170mm cranks with 175 or 180mm cranks help compensate for the too-low saddle and help me enjoy a smoother pedalling cadence, spinning circles like a proper cyclist again?

Longer cranks will mean your feet are travelling round a larger circle. The low point will be 5/10mm below that of your existing cranks but the high point will be 5/10mm above. It would feel different, there's no guarantee that different would be better.

Dear Gaz, Thank you for taking the time to get back to me. I like the idea of my feet travelling a larger circle. I'll give this a whirl. I can always go back to 170s if this fix doesn't work. Cheers.

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 9:32pmI sit on the saddle at stop lights with my right leg on the RH pedal and my left leg on the ground. I stay seated when I stop.

Thanks.

How would you feel about coming off the saddle as you prepare to stop, and getting back on as you start?

This would allow you to optimise the saddle height for riding.

Jonathan

I'd suggest that putting longer cranks on, too compensate for a low saddle, will increase your current difficulties 10-fold.

At a basic level, you've got a hugely reduced measurement between the saddle height and pedal, when the pedal is at the highest point in it's rotation (I.e. The pedal is at the highest point off the ground, during the pedalling motion). Difficulties in maintaining a decent cadence, can quite often be most apparent when the pedal is at that point, where it's at it's highest point and with the shortest measurement between the pedal and saddle (Nb. Giving cramps in the leg, additional pressure on the knee and preventing a decent cadence being maintained). If anything, if you're going to continue cycling with the saddle set so low, I'd suggest that shorter cranks would be preferable (Nb. If your saddle is only set 25mm lower, should be possible to find cranks which are 25mm shorter)

Haven't cycled since 30 October, due to fractured vertebrae & a leg & arm broken in ten places total, but am sorting out a spare bike (Nb. Which has a lower cross bar) with elevated handlebars (Adjustable stem), lowering off the saddle, to allow me to climb onto the bike. Have previously had to temporarily set a saddle low due to broken bones etc, so have dealt with this issue previously

Jdsk wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 9:51pm

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 9:32pmI sit on the saddle at stop lights with my right leg on the RH pedal and my left leg on the ground. I stay seated when I stop.

How would you feel about coming off the saddle as you prepare to stop, and getting back on as you start?

This would allow you to optimise the saddle height for riding.

My thinking is in line with Jonathan's.

I teach young kids basic MTB skills and they generally start off with very low seats from a combination of graduating from balance-bikes and growing faster than their seats get put up. Especially with the high bottom bracket on a mountain bike they tend to get a bit worried when they try a saddle height set for pedalling as they can no longer comfortably get either both feet down or one down practically flat when they stop, so one of the first things we teach is to always stop by coming forward from the saddle, keeping one foot on one pedal (which naturally ends up at 6 o'clock) as that's where all the weight is) and then the other foot flat on the ground.
Once the foot is down the 6 o'clock pedal can come up to 2 o'clock in your own time, and when you want to start you just stand up on it, that gets you going and gives you an easy step back to the seat. This pretty much never goes wrong, while we've had numerous slapstick falls from people trying to put feet down from a high saddle.

My usual town bikes let me get a foot comfortably down from the saddle, but on the mountain bike I'm on real tippy-toe if I try and so on that one I always come off the seat for a stop. It's safe, comfortable and stable and worth turning in to a default if you're unsteady from the seat.

Pete.

Hibeebiker wrote: ↑16 Jan 2023, 6:51pm I wondered if the slipped disc might have made my left leg shorter than the right.

My left leg is definitely shorter than the right, by 11 mm (measured by radiologist). I compensate for it in part by having a supple leather saddle that allows my left buttock to rider lower than the right, and take up the rest of the difference by tipping my left toe down. This admittedly puts a slant on my pelvis but it's no different from what I've been coping with my entire adult life. Before I found my leather one, riding on plastic saddles ground my left sit-bone to misery on every ride > 80km.

Anyway, a saddle that lets one buttock ride a bit lower than the other might be preferable to changing your cranks. Mine's a Selle Anatomica - I got it from their 'B' stock at around half price.

gbnz wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 8:46am I'd suggest that putting longer cranks on, too compensate for a low saddle, will increase your current difficulties 10-fold.

At a basic level, you've got a hugely reduced measurement between the saddle height and pedal, when the pedal is at the highest point in it's rotation (I.e. The pedal is at the highest point off the ground, during the pedalling motion). Difficulties in maintaining a decent cadence, can quite often be most apparent when the pedal is at that point, where it's at it's highest point and with the shortest measurement between the pedal and saddle (Nb. Giving cramps in the leg, additional pressure on the knee and preventing a decent cadence being maintained). If anything, if you're going to continue cycling with the saddle set so low, I'd suggest that shorter cranks would be preferable (Nb. If your saddle is only set 25mm lower, should be possible to find cranks which are 25mm shorter)

Exactly -- and well explained gbnz --- longer cranks will put much more stress on the knees as they will have to move through a greater angle ie more bent at top of stroke and more straightened at the bottom. If anything a shorter crank would be better when having to lower the saddle.

Also agree with bringing the bars back to give a more upright position.

After adjustments
Check front of knee to ball of foot lines up with plumb line when pedal at forward horizontal position.

I’m wondering whether an MTB dropper post would work in this situation? There is a cable connected from the handlebars to the seat post routed along the top tube. You press a button on the handlebars and your saddle height drops a few inches. This would make it much easier to get your foot flat on the ground when stopping. You then set off again, press the button and the seat post goes back up again.

Mountain bikers use them to get the saddle out of the way on descents, where they are out of the saddle and changing weight from one side to the other.