Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Thanks for the full explanation ct. A new jumper every other year is obviously key!
LancsGirl
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by LancsGirl »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 2:45pm
ed.lazda wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 1:35pm
cycle tramp wrote: 22 Jan 2023, 7:37pm ... I wear (Shetland) wool jumpers when I cycle ... how can the thousands of years of evolution ... be wrong?
This set me thinking again -- not always a good thing :lol:

If this were true, then wearing sheepskin should be even better. Should be very warm and maybe breathable, but none too good in the wet. Anyone tried?
Wool should be reasonably waterproof if you wear it how a sheep does; full of lanolin. This also means you will smell like a sheep!
How to add lanolin back to wool:

https://www.luthvarian.com/2018/10/19/a ... -the-wool/

It's worth pointing out that raw fleece, "as the sheep wears it", is about 25% lanolin, I think. Whereas most manufacturers remove all, or nearly all, the lanolin. I think lanolin makes it hard to dye wool, which is why they remove it. At least one manufacturer of merino base layers says they remove all of the lanolin, both to make it easier to dye the wool, and that the hydrophobic qualities of lanolin are a bad idea next to the skin, but useful on outer layers.

https://uk.dilling.com/blog/Is-lanolin- ... -bad-idea/
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Interesting, thanks. And interesting (?) to think that our heads would be waterproof if we didn't wash our hair.
LancsGirl
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by LancsGirl »

By the way, direct comparisons to sheep may not be appropriate.

from:

https://www.publish.csiro.au/cp/AR96005 ... mperature.
because the dynamics of water movement in the fleece are unknown
And they apparently lose heat more by panting than sweating, compared to humans

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 1AFAF771BB

Also their hoofs aren't the right shape for SPDs.
LancsGirl
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by LancsGirl »

cycle tramp wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 7:01pm I can generate enough heat to begin to vaporise any moisture which starts to wick its way through the wool (like a sheep would do)
But some people who have studied it say...
because the dynamics of water movement in the fleece are unknown.
from:

https://www.publish.csiro.au/cp/AR96005 ... mperature.
Last edited by LancsGirl on 28 Jan 2023, 12:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
LancsGirl
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by LancsGirl »

cycle tramp wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 7:01pm
2 to 4 year old jumpers have stated to loose a bit of the tightness in their weave which means that they have a bit more breathe-ably but can let the really sharp cold wind in.
Boiled wool may be worth exploring, if you haven't already. These EDZ gloves (as recommended here thank you):

https://edz.co.uk/product/edz-boiled-wool-gloves/

are toasty warm, and quite "firm" feeling. It remains to be seen how much they open up.

And boiled wool was what the original naval duffel coats were made out of.

Boiled wool jumpers are available:

https://profuomo.com/en/anthra-boiled-w ... led%20wool

Though I doubt boiled wool in merino baselayer is.

PS. Your jumpers are almost certainly knitted, not woven.
mattsccm
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by mattsccm »

These fabrics do work. The snag is that some of us can produce more vapour than the fabric can deal with. Biggest probelm is that they are wind proof and wind needs to go out to reduce sweating.
I ride to work in minus temps shivering and sweating at the same time. I can be shaking with cold before I get down the path yet end up soaked in sweat minutes later on a gentle flat ride. My body is wierd. Other mates cycle all day o all terrains wrapped up like a retreat from Moscow participant.
Pointless trying to prove what works or condemning something really isn't it?
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

LancsGirl wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 11:48am By the way, direct comparisons to sheep may not be appropriate.

from:

https://www.publish.csiro.au/cp/AR96005 ... mperature.
because the dynamics of water movement in the fleece are unknown
And they apparently lose heat more by panting than sweating, compared to humans

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 1AFAF771BB

Also their hoofs aren't the right shape for SPDs.
But having four hooves, they'd be able to ride a tandem as stoker and pilot simultaneously.
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freiston
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by freiston »

mattsccm wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 1:17pm These fabrics do work. The snag is that some of us can produce more vapour than the fabric can deal with. Biggest probelm is that they are wind proof and wind needs to go out to reduce sweating.
I ride to work in minus temps shivering and sweating at the same time. I can be shaking with cold before I get down the path yet end up soaked in sweat minutes later on a gentle flat ride. My body is wierd. Other mates cycle all day o all terrains wrapped up like a retreat from Moscow participant.
Pointless trying to prove what works or condemning something really isn't it?
This is why I reckon that the best solution (for when it is windy/cold and there's wind chill) will incorporate materials with windproof qualities and adjustable ventilation. In my experience, a front zip and long pit zips make for a very effective adjustable ventilation system. It can stop you getting hot under the collar and allow some movement of air around the armpits to keep you from overheating, getting wet through with sweat without turning you into a shivering wreck. A cold spot on the chest can be mitigated with a suitable undergarment/buff/snood/scarf.

I very rarely do my pit zips up but my front zip goes up and down a lot - usually inversely to the gradient.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
ed.lazda
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by ed.lazda »

mattsccm wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 1:17pm Pointless trying to prove what works or condemning something really isn't it?
I was more hoping to get a bit of discussion going. For me, these fabrics have something of the Emperor's new clothes about them, and I wonder if the industry has taken a wrong turn by going down the route of outer shells that breathe, rather than wick. I'm also more than a bit envious of those for whom they clearly do work.
geocycle
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by geocycle »

Very much depends how fabrics are used. I have a pair of Gore infinium gloves which are pretty poor, hands get very cold, not waterproof and no padding. Just about ok over mits in spring or autumn. I also use them with a merino liner which helps a bit. I’d be sceptical about relying on it as a jacket.
cycle tramp
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by cycle tramp »

ed.lazda wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 10:45am
mattsccm wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 1:17pm Pointless trying to prove what works or condemning something really isn't it?
I was more hoping to get a bit of discussion going. For me, these fabrics have something of the Emperor's new clothes about them, and I wonder if the industry has taken a wrong turn by going down the route of outer shells that breathe, rather than wick. I'm also more than a bit envious of those for whom they clearly do work.
I think you have. However I think that concentrating on this fabric or that fabric is only part of the solution... design is equally important.. like is it zipped or poppered, is the opening at the front central or asymmetrical (if it has one at all) are there any vents to the rear or the under arm and if so how many and what keeps the vents open (or at least controllable). Perhaps the idea garment uses different types of material a more heavier gauge for the garment's front, top of arms, shoulders and across the shoulder blades and complete lower arms, but a much lighter material at the lower back, and the arm pits and under arms where the body is much more sheltered

and that's without considering the riding style of the rider, or where they are cycling..
Earlier I mentioned that I mostly wear a woolly jumper, but even in good weather I descend like Thora Hurd in a chair lift, and I live in the South... if you lived in the North*, and descended slopes at +30 mph at sub-4c weather conditions then perhaps even the thickest of woollies might not be enough...

(*although if you lived in the north, your probably dead hard so cycling in anything other than a vest is going to make you look soft)
It's time to go :-)
ANTONISH
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by ANTONISH »

It strikes me that in the fifties all sorts of clothing was worn for cycling - U.S combat jackets were common as were donkey jackets - I had one of the latter and it worked well.
These days I find myself donning base layers etc under a Gore Tex shell which is ok but I don't feel it's much of an improvement.
mattheus
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by mattheus »

cycle tramp wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 10:56pm Perhaps the idea garment uses different types of material a more heavier gauge for the garment's front, top of arms, shoulders and across the shoulder blades and complete lower arms, but a much lighter material at the lower back, and the arm pits and under arms where the body is much more sheltered
A few years back a few manufacturers were selling "Boleros" to cyclists (mainly aimed at female riders).

I can only find ones sold as sun-shield or simple liight-weight fabrics now, but I think there were some rain-proof garments as well.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tNQAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg
garneau_bolero_thing.jpg
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squeaker
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by squeaker »

ANTONISH wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 9:24am It strikes me that in the fifties all sorts of clothing was worn for cycling - U.S combat jackets were common as were donkey jackets - I had one of the latter and it worked well.
These days I find myself donning base layers etc under a Gore Tex shell which is ok but I don't feel it's much of an improvement.
I have an M-1943 field jacket (inherited from my grandfather) that I use for gardening, but I'll stick with a Paramo Quito for cycling, thanks :lol:
"42"
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