Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

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thirdcrank
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by thirdcrank »

Here's some contemporary evidence preserved on youtube about winter cycling togs 60 years ago. Note a few riders wearing transparent plastic racing capes available for an arm and a leg from Ron Kitching's Everything Cycling when the shop was in Harrogate (Station Parade?) Breathbility = nil
slowster wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 2:08pm Jumpers for goal posts.

And for hard riders.

re_cycler
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by re_cycler »

ANTONISH wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 9:24am It strikes me that in the fifties all sorts of clothing was worn for cycling - U.S combat jackets were common as were donkey jackets - I had one of the latter and it worked well.
But trickier to roll up and pop into a jersey pocket.
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Sweep
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Sweep »

cycle tramp wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 10:56pm if you lived in the North*, and descended slopes at +30 mph at sub-4c weather conditions then perhaps even the thickest of woollies might not be enough...

(*although if you lived in the north, your probably dead hard so cycling in anything other than a vest is going to make you look soft)
northerner here - I wouldn't descend at plus 30mph in minus 4 anywhere.
Modern clothing can easily cope with any northern weather you'd want to safely cycle in.
Tend to Colin would agree.
(but apologies if been presumptious)
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Cugel
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Cugel »

When I were a lad, 291 years ago, woolly jumpers were the best thing available from one's existing wardrobe. Such wardrobes had but half a dozen or so items of clothing in them since most folk were unable to afford more and couldn't find anything better even if they were a bit flush.

The best jumpers for cycling were ones that were pure wool, no acrylic mixed in; and thicker i' the knit. The very best were ones that were too big for you when new but gradually became shrunken and felted. This made them tighter and also gave a degree of wind and waterproofness. They were also the items that tended to stay warm for longer when wet - as long as you kept thrusting mightily and so generating body heat.

Later on there were wool and acrylic mix jerseys made for cycling, with a zipped front to provide a crude means of ventilation when required, as well as a back pocket or two and extra length. Their best feature was two chest panels of a material akin to pertex, which kept off the worst of the wind chill effects when doing the long downhills in the cold. I've still got one of those, bought in 1974 from Ribble Cycles in Watery Lane, Preston. It's still good for the winter riding nearly 50 years later, with not even a knackered zip.

Wool tights were also quite good at keeping you warm although everyone had a seg or two around their knees where the rough wool rubbed most on the thinnest skin parts over knobble-knee. Also, they did bag i' the bum when really wet from lack of mudguard on a rainy day. Soggy chamois & wool - unpleasant when gone cool in the cafe!

*******
I can remember being often very wet in those early days on the bike but only cold if the pace dropped. Wool is good at keeping heat in to a degree, even when wet, but you have to keep generating heat from within by riding hard enough to produce it.

**********
Did you notice the lack of head covering and even gloves in that vid? Even up the Durham moors in the snow!

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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mattheus
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by mattheus »

Cugel wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 12:49pm I can remember being often very wet in those early days on the bike but only cold if the pace dropped. Wool is good at keeping heat in to a degree, even when wet, but you have to keep generating heat from within by riding hard enough to produce it.
No unpowered garments create heat.

(I know wool is a better insulator than most - all? - synthetics when wet. Vaguely recall the fibres swell up? Or maybe there's some other mechanism ... anyway, i'd rather be wet mending a puncture with a wool base-layer on than any other material! )
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Cugel
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Cugel »

mattheus wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 1:25pm
Cugel wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 12:49pm I can remember being often very wet in those early days on the bike but only cold if the pace dropped. Wool is good at keeping heat in to a degree, even when wet, but you have to keep generating heat from within by riding hard enough to produce it.
No unpowered garments create heat.

(I know wool is a better insulator than most - all? - synthetics when wet. Vaguely recall the fibres swell up? Or maybe there's some other mechanism ... anyway, i'd rather be wet mending a puncture with a wool base-layer on than any other material! )
As I recall, wool fibres are hollow and can hold the body-generated heat in both body-warmed air and/or water within the hollows for longer than do solid fibres. If some of the sheep's lanolin can be preserved in the wool garment, that also gets more of the rain or other external water to run off the wool before soaking it than otherwise.

Cugel, half lad, half ram.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Cugel wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 12:49pm Did you notice the lack of head covering and even gloves in that vid? Even up the Durham moors in the snow!

Cugel
Yes, and for that reason I don't think the appearance of any other garment in the film can be taken as an indication of general suitability. There will always be some who have a greater tolerance for cold and/or who ride at a much harder pace.
Ron
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by Ron »

mattheus wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 3:55pm The eskimos have a saying:"You sweat, you die."
Indeed.
I doubt if I'd do any winter cycling if I didn't have windproof jacket and trousers.
cycle tramp
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by cycle tramp »

Ron wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 2:36pm Indeed.
I doubt if I'd do any winter cycling if I didn't have windproof jacket and trousers.
Ah, that's interesting.. what kind of cycling do you do, where do you do it and for how long?
(Wind proof trousers? Never worn them myself, at all in the 25 years I've been cycling - so I'm interested)
(Used to ride in cords and thick knee socks and then changed a couple of years ago to long Johns, walking trousers and thick knee socks)
It's time to go :-)
ed.lazda
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by ed.lazda »

thirdcrank wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 10:07am Here's some contemporary evidence
What a fantastic video! I wonder how the guy in the short sleeve jersey and shorts got on once it started snowing.
cycle tramp wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 10:56pm ... I think that concentrating on this fabric or that fabric is only part of the solution... design is equally important..
Totally agree. Maybe the problem is it's all designed by "non-sweaty" cyclists rather than the sweaty, cold and grumpy contingent like me.
Cugel wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 12:49pm ... gradually became shrunken and felted. This made them tighter and also gave a degree of wind and waterproofness ...
Back to "boiled wool" again -- still a thing, apparently, but expensive and doesn't seem to be widely available. Probably even better if you rub it all over with lanolin.
geocycle
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by geocycle »

Great video, loved that! Very surprising not to see them wear a woolly hat, why wouldn’t you? Also surprised they don’t use saddlebags, I’d assumed they would have been ubiquitous then and surely preferable to those over the shoulder bags.
thirdcrank
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by thirdcrank »

geocycle wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 6:10pm Great video, loved that! Very surprising not to see them wear a woolly hat, why wouldn’t you? Also surprised they don’t use saddlebags, I’d assumed they would have been ubiquitous then and surely preferable to those over the shoulder bags.
Bonk bags to you, mate. For those who don't already know, musettes were and remain the long-established way of passing food and drink to riders in long races. On a designated stretch of the race route , helpers wearing team jerseys to be easily recognisable by their riders, dangle the cloth satchels to be grabbed and their contents to be switched into the riders' jersey pockets. The musettes would then be knotted up and thrown clear to be collected as cherished souvenirs.

UK riders used something similar but often bigger and with a belt to cart stuff about all day
geocycle
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by geocycle »

Ha, thanks TC!
thirdcrank
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by thirdcrank »

Somewhere among my junk I have a genuine SAUVAGE LEJEUNE musette dating from the days long ago when eg Alan Ramsbottom rode for Pelforth Sauvage Lejeune, collected from the roadside during the Midi Libre.
cycle tramp
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Re: Windproof winter jackets are no good for cycling. Discuss.

Post by cycle tramp »

Has anyone mentioned tweed yet?
It's time to go :-)
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