Replacing fully concealed cables

[PT1029]

Idle question, has anyone had to fit/replace fully concealed cables yet (or, had to pay someone to do it)?

Sometimes at coffee on a Sunday we see other cyclists, with new road bikes with completely concealed cable routing (nothing visible at the steering). All very neat and tidy, but I have often wondered about the horrors of fitting such cables. I look on such things as the work of the devil. Well, now you can see how it is done: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=kRQuz_r3ZY4 best to just look from 4.05 to 8.37 for the (fiddly) cable bit.

(The link is from the Rohloff/Campag levers thread on this forum viewtopic.php?t=154711 )
In a shop I'd recon on a labour charge of £40 - 50 before you touch a cable (dismantle tape/handle bars/stem/headset). And with those tight bends, I wonder how long the cables last anyway. If replacing a cable, such a faff, so you might as well so all 4 while at it, so that's probably nudging £100 labour, excluding the cables....

[Woodtourer]

I can tell you that working here in a bike shop the owner is moving to an hourly rate for these type of jobs. Some cables require 2 people to get them through the frames.

[Jupestar]

I suspect this thread will get diverted.

I'm a big fan of the asthetics of these bikes, much more than the more common cable into the top tube /Down tube, which I've never had much time for. I'm sure there is at least 0.02w of efficiency saving achieved as well.

I imagine most of those bikes will be designed with electric gearing in mind, so only a couple of brake cables, or more likely hoses. I assume the hoses are going down the inside of the steerer tube, and out a hole in the steerer near the downtube? Before traveling down the downtube /fork and eventually out next to the caliper. I was studying one being ridden on my commute and trying to work it out.

So anytime you want to do anything to the headset it a re-bleed of both brakes? If you went loose ball, then you might be able to get the fork out enough to squeeze in replacements, but I not sure that would even be possible, and a race bearing would definately need the brake disconnecting.

Also if you fly, what about getting the handlebars off and in a bike box?

Also what stops the cables knocking the inside of the frame?.

Have I misunderstood how the cable route is? Maybe there are outside the headset /steerer and hidden within part of the frame?

[Eyebrox]

One of the big repair shops here has a menu style pricelist. Next to cable replacement an asterisk draws you to a line that advises ... internal routing cable fitment - prices on application.

[rjb]

Been doing this for years on my 1976 kingpin. Gear, rear brake and dynamo lighting cable all threaded through the frame which hinges about the middle. Like most frames you can't just feed the outer in and expect it to exit the small hole at the other end.

1976 Dawes Kingpin folding shopper.

[mattsccm]

Got several bikes with internal cables. I tend to slide some thin stiff plastic tubing up the inner through the frame before removing the inner. Then pull the innner out and shove the new stuff though.

[PT1029]

Yes, but does that include being concealed inside the frame through inside the stem through inside the handle bars?.

[Jupestar]

Interesting that the video shows the cable going into a gap outside the steerer tube. It's also shows them exiting on the down tube and going external around the BB shell.

Not sure if this is a typical install. Some of the ones I've seen have basically zero cable showing other than a cm of hose popping out the chain stay or fork just before the caliper.

I thought typically the hoses went from shifter into handbar >> Stem >> Steerer >> frame/fork.

I imagine in the most practical one there must be a hose link somewhere accessable, but you would have disconnect and most likely re-bleed.

[mattsccm]

Bet you any bike with cables concealed from levers to mechs will be a higher end thing not some BSO.I also bet that it will be possible to fit such cables, probably by using internal guides.
The ones I have seen belonging to mates all have places where the cables can be accessed to draw them through.
Is this question about a specific bike or a potential worry for a future purchase?
Maybe an indication of the bike in question will help as generalisations here probably won't. In fact I would say of only limited value.

[PT1029]

Just a question about how difficult it would be to replace such a cable, and if anyone had done it. The practicalties of replacement seem quite a faff.
No particular bike in question (I have seen a few at coffee stops, don't remember a specific brand, but probably Specialized/Trek etc).
The closest I have come to seeing it done is on the youtube link upthread. Watch how he fits them. Then once finished, think about the process to replace one of the cables.
Would I buy such a bike with such cable routing? Never!

[mattsccm]

Just a knack I guess. I isn't even something I consider when buying a bike. If the bike fits the bill and looks nice I don't care about detail. The only hestiation I have isn't to do with cables but hoses as I am a serial fiddler and not being able to remove the brakes without a re-bleed might put me off. You can get splitters which solve this problem I know.

[zenitb]

My MTB has routing inside the frame.. fortunately for the rear mech only - the hydraulic brake cables are all external. I am hoping I can just thread new gear cables through the existing outer cables. (Red dashes show route)

It has a "tunnel" for the front mech cable as well but that is unused since its a 1x transmission.

[rareposter]

And with those tight bends, I wonder how long the cables last anyway. If replacing a cable, such a faff, so you might as well so all 4 while at it, so that's probably nudging £100 labour, excluding the cables....

Most bikes with fully integrated cables actually have Di2 and hydraulic hoses so there's nothing to replace. The only time you'd ever take them out is for a full complete strip and rebuild - say if you were fitting a brand new groupset or sending the frame away for a respray.

Even if it is using cables, most road bikes have had at least partially integrated cabling for decades now with the brake and gear cables being routed under the bar tape at the very least. You can replace the inners easily enough but changing the outers has always required new bar tape. And having the cables inside means there's less to go wrong - less chance of them snagging or splitting, less chance of them picking up dirt.

There's a bit of a knack to it and certain frames are easier than others to work on but on modern fully integrated systems, the worst part is replacing a headset since everything is going through that. Again, some systems have split spacers to make it a bit easier but realistically, how often do you replace a headset anyway?! It's not like it's a weekly job - for most people on most bikes it'll be a once every 2-3 years job at most!

[Jupestar]

https://officinabattaglin.com/products/ ... portofino/

Internal routing on steel bike.. only €6000 for the frame set!

[rareposter]

Internal routing on steel bike.. only €6000 for the frame set!

My LBS had a custom built 1980's road/tourer in the other day. Beautifully made - literally just a guy in a shed who'd built a few for him, his mates etc, it wasn't a "known brand" as such.

Steel, lugs with nice little highlight details...and internal cable routing! Was amazingly well done, these tiny little holes in the frame tubes and it had full internal guiding built in. There was a very neat, almost Kona-esque, bit of routing to get the rear brake cable around the seatttube.

Was way ahead of its time, there was nothing else like that in the 1980's!