Why can't a get a secure grip of my new hoods?

[doffcocker]

So as you'll see from some of my more recent posts I invested in a new bike a few months back, and from the start had a lot of trouble getting the fit right.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/road-bike ... mc=8554265

Anyway I've read the Colin guide thing, as recommended by many on here, back to front and feel like I understand now at least roughly where everything needs to be at.
Except wherever my seats at, wherever the bars are at, there's one common theme and that is that I feel petrified on certain steep downward surfaces.
I just feel like I now reach points where something in the back of my mind is telling me that the gradient coupled with the bumpy surface is just gonna be too much for my hands to keep hold of the hoods.
I realise to a certain extent this is a normal, healthy instinct, but I'm talking about certain roads that I'm avoiding more and more now even though I've glided down them for fun in the past on my previous bike.
After a few weeks of having the bike, I did have an accident going downhill, and that was caused by me losing my grip on the hoods after riding over a pretty minor bumpy patch on the road surface.
I just can't help wondering, especially after having a feel of the old bike if the reason I'm just not happy is I just don't feel these hoods are right or at least set up right for me or if there's some secret to properly getting hold of them that nobody has let me in on.
I've posted some pictures of the bikes old and new below:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4kxZMgr2cgCbyCF8

[Jdsk]

Please could you add a photo of your position: side-on and feet on the pedals? And a close-up of your hands on the hoods. Both in the position that you use when descending.

And in what direction do you feel that your hands might come off the hoods... forwards?

Jonathan

[531colin]

We have been here before....viewtopic.php?t=153614&hilit=weight&start=30

On the Triban, the bars are angled upwards but the levers are so far down the bars that the top of the lever is horizontal. Even so, there is a big upturned bit which should stop your hands slipping off the front of the lever.
On the old bike, the levers are high up the bars so that the top of the lever slopes up quite steeply; there is also an upturned bit at the front of the lever. The old bike also has short reach bars, maybe the reach of the old bike is less than the Triban.

Your account of how you feel riding the bike absolutely screams "TOO MUCH WEIGHT ON YOUR HANDS"
Can you do this?....maintain your (hoods) position without touching the bars, or are you propping up your torso with your hands?

Balanced position by 531colin, on Flickr

I repeat what I posted on the previous thread; My hands have never been jolted off the bars. Never, not once, in more than 60 years riding.
Riding tracks with drop bars has taught me how to descend on poor surfaces under control.
Cranks horizontal, most of your weight on your feet, slid back on the saddle to keep the back wheel down and your weight off the front wheel, braking from the hoods with a relaxed grip.....in fact, the hoods can rattle up and down under your hands.

[pwa]

I have my hoods angled a bit more upward, further up the curve of the bars, than is fashionable, because that is where my hands are 95% of the time and that is where I feel my hands are in a natural position. I couldn't live with my levers as far down as some people have them. It may help you to put your brake levers higher up the curve too. If you had them as high up the curve as in Colin's pic I doubt you could lose your grip even if you tried. Or is it that your hands slide sidewards off the hoods, possibly due to the bars being too narrow? I confess, like Colin, I've never come close to having my hands shaken off the brake hoods, despite never gripping too hard.

[slowster]

My experience is that there is much less scope to vary the position of STI levers on handlebars, because the shape and large bulk of the lever against the bar is compatible with only a narrow range of bar curvature. With the so-called compact bar shape of the OP's bike, the sharp angle of the bend does not allow the levers to be pointed very much higher than the usual 'flat transition' position. Consequently many people (and even some bike manufacturers) end up rotating the bars to alter the hood angle.

A traditional curved shape bar will allowSTI levers to be pointed higher than with compact bars, but still nothing like as much as is possible with a traditional 'brake only' lever.

I don't doubt 531colin is right about saddle position and resulting weight distribtion, but it would be interesting to compare the front end geometries of the two bikes (reach, head angle and fork offset).

[Mick F]

Can you do this?....maintain your (hoods) position without touching the bars, or are you propping up your torso with your hands?

No. Not and ride as well.

It's all to do with front geometry as Slowster suggests, but I would add that it is something to do with body-shape too.

[zenitb]

For a steep bumpy downhill I go down to the drops. I have a more secure grip and complete control of brake modulation. I am clipped in securely and if it gets really steep I can lift off the saddle and move my weight further back..as I would on my MTB on a downhill run.

[doffcocker]

Just a bit of an update on this, and thanks all for getting back to me.

Firstly I will try and get some pics of myself on the bike asap, as you can imagine I'm struggling with the practicalities of that, but know this would help a lot so will certainly try for these.

@Colin531, am I talking to the Colin who produced the article I mentioned in my OP? If so, I suddenly feel star struck somehow. Bravo, and special thanks indeed for your response.

I just have a further question relating to foot position when cycling downhill. I have always gravitated toward a six o clock position when freewheeling downwards and on my ride this evening noticed some resistance to using my foot on the lower pedal as an anchor - I think I read somewhere that going downhill should ideally be a 2:45/9:15 type thing and have been aiming for that - but realised just how much weight comes off my hands when I instead let it rest on my right (preferred foot).

If that makes sense...

Are there problems associated with this or is it just standard?

[pwa]

Unless there is a danger of grounding a pedal, I tend to rest some of my weight on one foot, taking some weight off my bottom in case of jolts from a poor road surface.

[Nearholmer]

My take is that it depends how rough the ground is.

If it is truly bumpy, I will go to horizontal pedals, mostly keeping on the hoods, but if very steep I will go to the drops, in both cases sliding backwards on the seat, in extremis bum pretty much off the back. Depending on the nature of the ground, I sometimes let my hand grip go really loose, around the hoods or drops, but barely touching, letting the bike find its own way round the lumps and bumps, rather than trying to steer too actively.

On slightly bumpy roads or smoother paths, I will float off the seat a tiny bit on one leg, with the pedal down, and heel down, but too much of that probably isn’t much good for the hip joint.

[Mick F]

Two points here.

One, I detest STIs, as the hoods are far too big, and I'm not surprised that anyone feels uncomfortable with them.
Campag style is better, and smaller, and easier to hold. I have Campag Ergo on one bike, and Tektro brakes on the other. The shape and size of them are very similar indeed.

Two, when I descend, I have my pedals at 9 o'clock/3 o'clock. No danger of grounding, and easy to lift my bum off the saddle for the bumps.

[Jupestar]

Hard to tell from the pictures, (one with the bikes next to each other so the distance from saddle to hoods can be compared). But i suspect that the reach from saddle to hoods on the grey triban is greater than on the blue bike. In which case you could be throwing too much weight on the hands and taking the bumps into the arms rather than through the legs.

[TrevA]

Foot position when descending, for me, depends on the descent. If it’s just a straightforward downhill, then I’ll have my feet in the 3 O’Clock/9 O’Clock position. If it’s a twisty descent, then I’ll have them in the 12 O’Clock/6 O’Clock position, with the inside pedal (the one on the side you are leaning towards) being the higher and the outside pedal being lower.

[PedallingSquares]

Foot position when descending, for me, depends on the descent. If it’s just a straightforward downhill, then I’ll have my feet in the 3 O’Clock/9 O’Clock position. If it’s a twisty descent, then I’ll have them in the 12 O’Clock/6 O’Clock position, with the inside pedal (the one on the side you are leaning towards) being the higher and the outside pedal being lower.

*My underline.
^^This^^.A technique used by Mountain Bikers for optimum grip when cornering.I use it on the roads too.

[531colin]

I don't doubt 531colin is right about saddle position and resulting weight distribtion, but it would be interesting to compare the front end geometries of the two bikes (reach, head angle and fork offset).

Reach clearly effects riding position and your balance on the bike, but I can't think how head angle and fork offset would?