Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

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thirdcrank
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 8:42pm Not for me.

I'm nearly always aware of orientation, to the point (!) where it's a joke in the family. I wear a watch with a clock face. My 'phone has a compass +++. And I take one of my large collection of Silva compasses when I'm walking.

Jonathan

PS: How about silk maps concealed in the linings of clothes? : - )
I took it that the bit I've highlighted was a reference to the fact that BITD magazines for boys regularly included advice on navigating using only a watch - although it did depend on being able to see the sun
Jdsk
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:18am
Jdsk wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 8:42pm ...
I'm nearly always aware of orientation, to the point (!) where it's a joke in the family. I wear a watch with a clock face. My 'phone has a compass +++. And I take one of my large collection of Silva compasses when I'm walking.
...
I took it that the bit I've highlighted was a reference to the fact that BITD magazines for boys regularly included advice on navigating using only a watch - although it did depend on being able to see the sun
Yes, finding S by using the sun, the hour hand and local noon.

It's a useful technique. You can get a rough estimate with the same method if you replace the real clock face with an imaginary equivalent. And you don't need the sun to be visible all of the time, just often enough.

Jonathan

PS: Anyone for lichen?
Mike Sales
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Mike Sales »

st599_uk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 10:33am I know on yachts, you pay some knowledgable type to swing the compass and correct for the large lump of metal in the engine bay.

How does a small compass mounted on a large metal bike get affected?

I can see that a Silva held away from the bike - or taken away from the bike whilst laying out a map may be better.
I don't think that many cyclists would want to carry Flinders Bars to compensate!
flinders-bar.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flinders_bar
Last edited by Mike Sales on 26 Jan 2023, 11:52am, edited 1 time in total.
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RickH
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by RickH »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:30amPS: Anyone for lichen?
Or the modern equivalent for the (sub)urban jungle - satellite dishes, which point roughly 23 degrees East of South in the UK! :D
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
Jdsk
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Jdsk »

RickH wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:38am
Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:30amPS: Anyone for lichen?
Or the modern equivalent for the (sub)urban jungle - satellite dishes, which point roughly 23 degrees East of South in the UK
: - )

Jonathan
Carlton green
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Carlton green »

tenbikes wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:05am The biggest problem with button compasses is they tend to be low quality.

Anyone know of an oil filled quality item?
Some are NATO approved so that might suit - the BCB ones are (from some shops) cheap but other ‘approved’ compasses might be very pricey.
I’d thought that oil filled was best but that’s questionable.
The tidiest small compass that I’ve seen that isn’t silly money is made by polymath products, nearly a tenner but looks worth it.
Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 10:46am
st599_uk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 10:33am I know on yachts, you pay some knowledgable type to swing the compass and correct for the large lump of metal in the engine bay.

How does a small compass mounted on a large metal bike get affected?

I can see that a Silva held away from the bike - or taken away from the bike whilst laying out a map may be better.
Just been out to the garage with a Silva. The steel framed bikes had a very large effect.

Jonathan
Thanks Jonathan, you set me wondering so I got a Silva Compass out and did some checks myself. Up close there’s definitely an effect and the Silva was 90 degrees out when pressed against steel handlebars - I’m not a fan of alloy handlebars (they’re subject to sudden failure) but alloy might be needed if someone wants to use a handlebar mounted compass. Standing near the bike and over the frame didn’t seen to be particularly significant but there’s plenty of potential for error - certainly a useful reminder to check for other attraction than the magnetic North.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:30am Yes, finding S by using the sun, the hour hand and local noon.

It's a useful technique. You can get a rough estimate with the same method if you replace the real clock face with an imaginary equivalent. And you don't need the sun to be visible all of the time, just often enough.

Jonathan

PS: Anyone for lichen?
Yes, can be useful; but it's far from unusual to have a completely overcast day in the UK (and I suspect some other countries).

Plus the better the weather, the less likely you are to be in the kind of pickle that requires navigational help. (see also: night)

I suppose lichen solve the daylight problem - bless 'em - but there probably a fair few degrees of error in that method. They need better training to be REALLY useful!
Carlton green
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Carlton green »

mattheus wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 2:44pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 11:30am Yes, finding S by using the sun, the hour hand and local noon.

It's a useful technique. You can get a rough estimate with the same method if you replace the real clock face with an imaginary equivalent. And you don't need the sun to be visible all of the time, just often enough.

Jonathan

PS: Anyone for lichen?
Yes, can be useful; but it's far from unusual to have a completely overcast day in the UK (and I suspect some other countries).

Plus the better the weather, the less likely you are to be in the kind of pickle that requires navigational help. (see also: night)

I suppose lichen solve the daylight problem - bless 'em - but there probably a fair few degrees of error in that method. They need better training to be REALLY useful!
Lichen, a watch sundial, the stars, which way the trees lean or an inexpensive button/small compass used with a bit of care?

Splashing out and spending about £1.25 for something that works night and day, quickly gives you a useful indication of where North is, and takes virtually no space in your pocket or bag seems to be a no brainer to me. Obviously take something better when you need to but as useful back-ups and insurance goes a button compass is an absolute bargain.
Last edited by Carlton green on 27 Jan 2023, 9:33am, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by mattheus »

Yes I agree Carlton. In fact I have owned and used several!

But the problem is in that word "several" - maybe because I only bought cheap ones, they didn't stay very accurate for very long. And I think one was useless straight out of the packet.

Actually I seem to recall the first one I used cost quite a few shekels (can't remember what happened to it), and was better quality than the recent ones.

So I opened your thread with interest, hoping to find the perfect cheap--accurate-reliable button compass :P
Carlton green
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Carlton green »

mattheus wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 9:28am Yes I agree Carlton. In fact I have owned and used several!

But the problem is in that word "several" - maybe because I only bought cheap ones, they didn't stay very accurate for very long. And I think one was useless straight out of the packet.

Actually I seem to recall the first one I used cost quite a few shekels (can't remember what happened to it), and was better quality than the recent ones.

So I opened your thread with interest, hoping to find the perfect cheap--accurate-reliable button compass :P
As is the case with nearly everything cheap the items don’t last or were poorly made - select with care and be prepared to take a loss. The additional ’button’ compasses that I bought match ones that I’ve bought before and are so cheap that a doubtful or even short service life isn’t an issue - so long as they don’t unexpectedly let me down and none have. Of the ten or so that I’ve bought over the years a couple didn’t point near enough to North and we’re discarded - a tiny financial loss - and the rest are in bags or pockets here and there or given to friends - one compass has been attached to the side of my used daily day-sack for over five years. I’ve been more than pleased enough and probably spent about a tenner for a lot of received utility, for me that’s definitely a good enough return. :D

I’ve found that Silva stuff is usually good so to de-risk a lower price purchase buy one of their cheaper base plate field compasses, they’re reasonably compact too - I have one in my map case and it’s been a good buy. The Polymath CMP-20 looks like it would be money well spent, and again is quite affordable. Though not from this supplier, or at this (higher unit) price, the compasses that I use are like this one on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195306450328 ... R-K0uqq-YQ
(I paid about £4-50, inc delivery, for four off two cm diameter compasses, they are each mounted on a small plastic fob that has short loop of cord attached to it.)
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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simonineaston
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by simonineaston »

Can't see the point. Other than a very basic indication of where north maybe might be. Useless for proper navigation. Their only plus is to act as a barely better than nothing at all back-up in case you lose whatever else you're using. Better off asking someone the way. Been very unimpressed with them since nagging my parents for a pair of Clarks Wayfinders lace-ups...
Having said that, I clearly remember Damian Lewis using one to find the rest of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment and go on to win the war...
S
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Galactic
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Galactic »

simonineaston wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:57am Better off asking someone the way
If there's one method of navigation I'll try at all costs to avoid, it's asking locals. With rare exceptions, they have no conception of how far a mile/km is, will have never heard of the nearest campsite (and to be fair, why would they?), and will send you three junctions along the 10 lane bypass to reach the next shop when it's only 100 yards down that path there. And why do they always seem to thing Northerton is to the south of Middleton and that Southerton is west of Easterton? Given half a chance, they'll merrily stand next to a fingerpost and point you in the wrong direction.

Evil or incapable? Something to mull over while your tires chew up the miles.

EDITED to add: "And that's why I always have a compass on my bike ..."
mattheus
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by mattheus »

Galactic wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 1:10pm
simonineaston wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:57am Better off asking someone the way
If there's one method of navigation I'll try at all costs to avoid, it's asking locals. With rare exceptions, they have no conception of how far a mile/km is, will have never heard of the nearest campsite (and to be fair, why would they?), and will send you three junctions along the 10 lane bypass to reach the next shop when it's only 100 yards down that path there. And why do they always seem to thing Northerton is to the south of Middleton and that Southerton is west of Easterton? Given half a chance, they'll merrily stand next to a fingerpost and point you in the wrong direction.

Evil or incapable? Something to mull over while your tires chew up the miles.

EDITED to add: "And that's why I always have a compass on my bike ..."
:lol:

And so very true!
PH
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by PH »

simonineaston wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:57am Can't see the point. Other than a very basic indication of where north maybe might be. Useless for proper navigation. Their only plus is to act as a barely better than nothing at all back-up in case you lose whatever else you're using.
I agree, I'm rarely without some electronic gizmo, phone or Garmin, that doesn't include a compass. If I'm ever in a situation where it might matter if that were unreliable, I'd want something better than this.
PH
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by PH »

Galactic wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 1:10pm If there's one method of navigation I'll try at all costs to avoid, it's asking locals.
That made me laugh, there's a good bit of truth in it. I used to ride with someone who relied on chat-nav, it did sometimes turn into a mystery tour.
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