Tubus Tara different?

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PT1029
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Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Tubus Tara different?

Post by PT1029 »

I have just looked at fitting my new stainless Tubus Tara front rack. Compared to the non stanless one I also own, they have altered the mounting points position.
The lower mounts (by drop out) have moved down a bit, so making the whole thing a bit higher. Higher centre of gravity, but then again, more ground (kerb) clearance for your panniers. Comparison below: -
Tubus Tara new layout.jpg

It might be the Cro mo vs stainless models were always different? - I don't know.
Also no threaded holes where the horizontal bar meets the U bar, just a plain hole and you use a nut and bolt, not so neat by possibly more user servicable in the back of beyond. M5 bolts provided, holes accomodate M6 bolts if needed.

What should have been a fairly simple fit has become more of a faff, as when the horizontal bars are tightened to the U bar, at the fork blade mounts the horizontal bars are notably wider than the design spec in the instructions (and notably wider that the forks!). I've put it to one side, and will have to come back to it.

Also not shown the the photo, a sticker "Made in Taiwan". I assume the dreadful availability of Tubus racks in recent months was due to moving the manufacturing equipment over.
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

..there's been several changes to the tara rack over the years....
Including a slot mounting point for mounting the rack at the mid fork instead of three m5 holes in a row- which strikes me as less secure, especially if you go off reading...

I suspect the change in the position of the lower mounting tabs was partly due to the use of +29 and +27.5 tyre sizing.

I've got nothing against stuff being made in Taiwan, but when China does decide to bomb the hell out of it, we're all up brown-water creek without a paddle.
It's time to go :-)
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531colin
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by 531colin »

Previous thread on Tubus availability....viewtopic.php?p=1718385&hilit=tubus#p1718385

Tubus have fitting instructions and diagrams on their website, I don't know if they are the same as supplied with the product?

I would recommend that you don't just "spring" the rack to fit (just like a rear rack where the dropout width doesn't suit)
If the rack is "sprung" it is much more likely to fatigue and fail, its better to permanently bend something so that the rack goes on without stress....might this be as simple as bending the bolts which secure the horizontal rails to the loop bit?

Its unlikely that a different example of the same rack type will have different measurements.....i think!
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

Following on from 531 Colin's comments, I dived into the fitting instructions for that model - now it looks like a number optional m5 spacers of different widths having been included in the fittings pack - including a couple of spacers which might go between the horizontal bars and the mud point mounting on the forks?
It's time to go :-)
PT1029
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Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by PT1029 »

Indeed there are spacers provided. Ideally of course the bolts will live longer with no spacers used. If my memory from yesterday is correct, the spacers needed at the mid fork mount are bigger than those suppled, and bigger than the stated max of (I think) 10mm.
If I need to bend anything, it might end up being the horizontal bar (subject to not upsetting pannier mounting/not crimping/denting the horizontal bar (which is a tube of course).

Re the different mounting points for the dropout fixing in the photo up thread, I expect the "new" design isn't that new. In the photo the silver one is new, the black one about 30 years old (so just out of warranty!). I saw a Cro Mo Tara today with the "new" mounting point design, but the rack is a few years old.

PS 531Colin, bike build slowly coming on, the ATB pull cross top levers you sold me last year are now on the handle bars.
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

PT1029 wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 5:31pm Indeed there are spacers provided. Ideally of course the bolts will live longer with no spacers used. If my memory from yesterday is correct, the spacers needed at the mid fork mount are bigger than those suppled, and bigger than the stated max of (I think) 10mm.
If I need to bend anything, it might end up being the horizontal bar (subject to not upsetting pannier mounting/not crimping/denting the horizontal bar (which is a tube of course).

PS 531Colin, bike build slowly coming on, the ATB pull cross top levers you sold me last year are now on the handle bars.
Blimey!
So if you don't use any spacers I take it that the horizontal bars end up butting the inverted u bar which sits over the front wheel, or do the horizontal bars actually end up running inside the inverted u?
It's time to go :-)
PT1029
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by PT1029 »

The horizontal bars need to be on the outside I think, otherwise the U bar may well interfere with the pannier back plate just under the front pannier hook.
Anyway, here is the rack assembled, horizontal bars on the outside of the U bar - bolts tight enough to remove play: -
IMG_20230130_152923549.jpg
If you swing the horizontal bars 180 degrees, the spacing remains the same.
Bar bending time I think, once I've sorted all the other stuff.

I agree with 531Colin about bending/cold setting being better that springing it and leaving it under stress.
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

PT1029 wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 5:53pm The horizontal bars need to be on the outside I think, otherwise the U bar may well interfere with the pannier back plate just under the front pannier hook.
Certainly mine were... but thanks for the reply, with the bolts going all the way through the use section I had a passing thought that there was an option of mounting them in board...
But as you say, that kinda limits how you'd use the rack with panniers.

At this point, I'm stumped. But before you start bending stuff, is it worth a quick email to their customer services email box... its possibly not the first time they've encountered this issue.
It's time to go :-)
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

..additional...

Is the hoop of your new tubus tara wider than the hoop of your old cromo tubus tara...

Tubus did manufacturer a short supply of specialist tubus racks for big apple tyres... is there a chance that what you have may not have been correctly labelled by the manufacturer?
It's time to go :-)
gregoryoftours
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by gregoryoftours »

Mine's an old one, but I had to space the side rails quite a bit from the fork low rider mounts, more than the spacers supplied. I used v-brake block mounting nuts. It's always been fine with quite heavy loads over fairly rough ground.
IMG_20230131_145050.jpg
IMG_20230131_145101.jpg
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531colin
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by 531colin »

I think there is a lot of stress (in shear) on Gregory's little M5 bolts.
I would rather arrange (ie bend) things so that the load is shared between shear on the bolts and friction between the side rails and the fork. Anything between the rail and the fork gives an opportunity for slippage.
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

gregoryoftours wrote: 31 Jan 2023, 3:18pm Mine's an old one, but I had to space the side rails quite a bit from the fork low rider mounts, more than the spacers supplied. I used v-brake block mounting nuts. It's always been fine with quite heavy loads over fairly rough ground.IMG_20230131_145050.jpgIMG_20230131_145101.jpg
Good Lord! That's a might spacer- are you using carbon steel bolts or stainless? Any more photos of your bike, please :-)
It's time to go :-)
PT1029
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by PT1029 »

I had to use 1 set (concave + convex) of V brake pad spacers (the thicker ones) to fit my Cro Mo Tara rack onto my 1980's touring forks - I wasn't worried about bolt shear as it was only a short term/handling test/comparison exercise.
Mechanically of course spacing out bolts is not good. On the plus side, you are less likely to damage your paint with the pannier hooks.

I have sent a query to Tubus to see what they say, including my wide arms photo, and a link to this thread.
cycle tramp
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Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by cycle tramp »

Thanks for the update - I'd be interested in their reply..

531 Colin - would the strength of the m5 bolt increase if the spacer had a m5 thread and had to be threaded onto the mounting bolt?
It's time to go :-)
PT1029
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Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: Tubus Tara different?

Post by PT1029 »

"would the strength of the m5 bolt increase if the spacer had a m5 thread and had to be threaded onto the mounting bolt?"

I would say it would sort of make it stronger, but at the expense of being unable to tighten it fully into the fork.
The threaded fork + treaded spacer effectively become a lock nut. You could easily get the bolt tight in the fork, but not also getting the rack tightly held at the same time.
Having a spacer that is an unthreaded but snug fit on the bolt would make it stronger (effectively a bigger diameter).
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