Overtaking

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Cycling john
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Joined: 30 Jan 2023, 10:41pm

Overtaking

Post by Cycling john »

I know this probably just a technicality but when I’m overtaking another cycle do I have to give 1.5 metres space in the same way a car does? The Highway Code applies to all Road users and the paragraph relating to this rule doesn’t specify ‘motorised vehicles?’ In reality how much space do you give when overtaking another cyclist?
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Chris Jeggo
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Joined: 3 Jul 2010, 9:44am
Location: Woking, Surrey

Re: Overtaking

Post by Chris Jeggo »

When I'm pootling on my own and a chain gang sweeps past some of them are sometimes too close for my liking. In such a situation there's usually room for 1.5m clearance, except when some of the chain gang are two abreast.
If you are riding two abreast how much clearance are you comfortable with? How much does it vary? Would that be a suitable clearance for an overtaking cyclist who warns of his approach? A bit more for the strong silent cyclist who doesn't?
I guess the 1.5m in the Highway Code applies to us as overtakers, but it is advice not law. If you're in a sociable mood you could overtake in two stages: draw alongside and pass the time of day, then accelerate back up to your cruising speed.
slowster
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Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Overtaking

Post by slowster »

Personally I don't think the 1.5m gap expected by overtaking cars is necessary for two bikes at speeds of 10mph-15mph on reasonable road surfaces in good riding conditions travelling in a straight line. I think I would probably usually aim for 50cm separation at the closest point when the two handlebars are level.

Any of a number of other factors, however, might necessitate going wider in some circumstances, and possibly wider than 1.5m, e.g. overtaking:

- at high speed, especially downhill
- on a bend in the road
- a rider who looks unsafe or nervous or is otherwise exhibiting questionable bike skills
- a child on a bike.
richards
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 10:18am
Location: London

Re: Overtaking

Post by richards »

I think minimum of one metre is desirable. I was riding in a bus lane on a busy and noisy road. I swerved to avoid a pothole and nearly took out a cyclist who was overtaking me quite close. He thought I should have looked behind and signalled before moving out. I thought he was too close and I wouldn’t have had time to look behind and signal after the pothole became apparent. Of course I was right.

In any case there is a risk when overtaking on a bike that the cyclist in front will not have heard you, busy road or not, so it is in your own interest to give plenty of room.
roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Essentially, yes.

Why wouldn't you?
Barrowman
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Joined: 8 Jan 2022, 6:35pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by Barrowman »

Doesn't hurt to call'coming through' or similar. I would suggest an arms length is probably sufficient in most situations. If it's an unsteady rider then more is safer.
Pebble
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Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by Pebble »

Cycling john wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 10:49pm I know this probably just a technicality but when I’m overtaking another cycle do I have to give 1.5 metres space in the same way a car does? The Highway Code applies to all Road users and the paragraph relating to this rule doesn’t specify ‘motorised vehicles?’ In reality how much space do you give when overtaking another cyclist?
Interesting point regarding the law and the 1.5m rule for cyclists passing cyclists. The way I read the rule would suggest they must, and an overtaking cyclist would be to blame for any collision if he or she had not left that 1.5m space

Even before the rule I have always given cyclists plenty space either when driving or riding. I have seen too many cyclists making strange unsignalled, unpredictable manoeuvres to have much faith in what they might be going to do next.
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by cycle tramp »

slowster wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 11:59pm Personally I don't think the 1.5m gap expected by overtaking cars is necessary for two bikes at speeds of 10mph-15mph on reasonable road surfaces in good riding conditions travelling in a straight line. I think I would probably usually aim for 50cm separation at the closest point when the two handlebars are level.

Any of a number of other factors, however, might necessitate going wider in some circumstances, and possibly wider than 1.5m, e.g. overtaking:

- at high speed, especially downhill
- on a bend in the road
- a rider who looks unsafe or nervous or is otherwise exhibiting questionable bike skills
- a child on a bike.
I'm going to completely disagree with the above and go for 1.5 metres all the time, simply because you can not prepare yourself for the unexpected..

...a reasonable road surface measured by someone overtaking may completely different from from someone cycling. An overtaker may not notice a wet patch of leaves, hidden road defect or a bank of gravel, slippery manhole cover (as the bicycle rider may be blocking their view of them) but if the cyclist looses traction because of it and falls in front of the person overtaking and the overtaking is closer than 1.5 meters them they may hit the cyclist, whether its their head or an outstretched arm...

I still remember quite vividly the time when, cycling down a country lane, a fully grown deer jumped from the bushes and to avoid it I had plunged to my right.. had anyone been attempting to overtake me, I would have been completely in their path.

I demand that you pass me at 1.5 metres (5 foot*). This is for both your safety and mine
(if you collide with me when we are both cycling and I am well enough to get up, bad things are going to happen. If you collide with me and I get up and you are already seriously hurt (bearing in mind that I'm usually carrying 18 kgs of luggage, use a heavy duty touring bike frame, together with over built wheels) it doesn't get any better as I usually don't have a mobile phone on me to call for help)

However, I appreciate the fact that you may be auduaxing or something so, if you can't overtake me at that distance then let me know and I'll slow up, pull over and let you pass. Overtake me closer than 1.5 metres without any warning and you will get a reaction, which you may not appreciate (as the length of my arm is over 50 cm).

*Edited to 5 foot as my maths and ability to convert is woefully shocking (see below)
Last edited by cycle tramp on 31 Jan 2023, 10:32am, edited 1 time in total.
It's time to go :-)
Nearholmer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Overtaking

Post by Nearholmer »

1.5 metres (4 foot).
Which would you prefer?

(1.5m is c5ft)
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by cycle tramp »

I understand that the above sounds a bit harsh but being on the roads is a risky business.

I was taking road traffic calls when during high winds a dead tree from a privately owned ground blew over and crushed a car travelling underneath it sadly killing the driver...
I took a call from the Police asking for a road closure, when an elderly motorist hit the accelerator rather than the brake, ploughed into someone riding a mobility scooter who was using a light controlled crossing in front of them and then crushed them against a wall of a building.

Y'know every time we use the roads, we pick up the dice and pray we don't get a double one. We can play the odds - it's not a certainly, but it can make a difference. One of those things affecting the odds is overtaking other cyclists at 1.5 metres (5 foot - see above :-)). It just means that we all stay a little more out of each others way and that dramas are kept to a minimum.


.
It's time to go :-)
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Overtaking

Post by Bmblbzzz »

There are so many factors involved.

HC says:
leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds
take extra care and give more space when overtaking motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians in bad weather (including high winds) and at night
So that's two factors straight away: your speed and the weather. In practice most motor vehicles overtaking "at speeds of up to 30mph" will be towards the top of that range, while as a cyclist you might well be in the middle of it. Then there's the speed of the cyclist you're overtaking.

But perhaps the biggest factor is the general circumstances. Does the other cyclist know you're there and that you're about to overtake? There's a huge difference in overtaking someone in a group situation, such as an audax or club ride, or in a busy commuter situation, where overtaking and being overtaken is expected, compared to a solitary cyclist idling along.
Nearholmer
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Re: Overtaking

Post by Nearholmer »

The worst are those cheery fellows who wish you a good day at a range of about 18” as they stride past, causing surprise, and risking a flinch-driven diversion.

Not just cyclists BTW. I was driving on the M25 the other day and as I passed two lorries in lanes to my left on one of those “lots of lanes” sections, there was an almighty bang. The two lorries had gone sideways into one another, and in my rear view mirror I saw them come to a halt wedged together.
slowster
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Re: Overtaking

Post by slowster »

3.65m appears to be the general guideline minimum lane width for new roads, and many existing roads will be less. Taking 0.5m as the approximate width of the cyclist:

- 1m for the cyclist being overtaken, measured from gutter to wheels
- 0.25m for their body width to the right of their wheels
- 0.5m for the width of the cyclist overtaking

That leaves up to 1.9m of the lane that can be used for overtaking clearance. The bigger the overtaking clearance however, the less the clearance between the overtaking cyclist and oncoming vehicles in the other lane.
jimster99
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Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by jimster99 »

I think on balance cyclists are OK to overtake other cyclists with a bit less than 1.5m. You have better visibility on a bike, it's more maneouverable and there are no wing mirrors sticking out to swipe the overtakee, plus if you did collide, you're two roughly equal sized objects so there is a somewhat reduced chance of either cyclist being crushed or knocked over (vs a collision with a car). And a 1.5m gap would often not be realistic especially in cities and with often narrow cycle lanes.

I also don't think the 1.5m overtaking rule actually applies to cyclists (the 1.5m is stated in highway code rule 163 here : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 159-to-203) and the section on cyclists doesn't appear to say cyclists are required to follow rule 163 (see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... s-59-to-82).

That being said, I do sometimes get loons on electric bikes / delivery bikes overtaking me with a few mm's of space when I've got my infant on the back, and I wish they wouldn't! Especially those with illegally souped up electric bikes demontrating motorbike levels of speed and acceleration...
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Overtaking

Post by Jdsk »

jimster99 wrote: 31 Jan 2023, 11:43am ...
I also don't think the 1.5m overtaking rule actually applies to cyclists (the 1.5m is stated in highway code rule 163 here : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 159-to-203) and the section on cyclists doesn't appear to say cyclists are required to follow rule 163 (see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... s-59-to-82).
...
I interpret Rules 159 to 203 as applying to all road users as it doesn't say otherwise.

But it would be better if it were explicit, especially as it follows "General rules, techniques and advice for all drivers and riders (103 to 158)".

Jonathan
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