Compulsory Purchase

Pete Owens
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Compulsory Purchase

Post by Pete Owens »

Surely this is a case for compulsory purchase of a strip of land:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... sex-estate
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TrevA
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by TrevA »

It would be interesting to get a bit more detail. It says there are 2 possible routes that the landowner will allow, one next to a railway line and one which may get flooded. I don’t know why the one next to the railway line is deemed unsuitable. There are cyclepaths near me that are next to the East Coast Mainline.
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Pete Owens
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by Pete Owens »

The intricate details are not the issue.The key thing is that transport infrastructure needs to follow sensible routes, not whatever fragments of land landowners are prepared to allow.

Imagine what the route of the A272 (Haywards Heath Bypass) would look like if it was dictated by the whims of landowners.
Nearholmer
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by Nearholmer »

It probably was back in C18th …. The A272 isn’t exactly a ruler-straight superhighway.

But, one would like to think that we’ve moved on beyond C18th, although I fear that we are hurtling back towards it.
PH
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by PH »

Compulsory Purchase Orders are certainly possible for cycle projects, but maybe the council don't have the budget. A CPO won't only compensate for the value of the land itself, it also covers any loss of value or amenity to the landowner, this is determined independently, I suspect it can be a long and costly process. We don't know what the council were hoping for, or willing to pay, maybe they were hoping for a permissive bridleway.
It does sound like it's a straightforward good idea, sadly that isn't always enough.
Zulu Eleven
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by Zulu Eleven »

Compulsory purchase is generally not needed, but some councils seem to be wedded to the idea of it being the only option if a landowner won't 'agree' to something - to the point where they waste huge sumps of public money and get nowhere.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ow-8091328

Why buy the land when you don't need to? Section 26 Highways act 1980 gives creation powers for public rights of way - footpath, bridleway, restricted byway - you create rights of access over the land without purchasing the ownership. yes, you may have to pay compensation but in most cases this is minimal and much lower than the land value. but its rights of way law so generally 'all too difficult' by often brain dead council staff.
mattheus
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by mattheus »

Zulu Eleven wrote: 3 Feb 2023, 9:11am Why buy the land when you don't need to? Section 26 Highways act 1980 gives creation powers for public rights of way - footpath, bridleway, restricted byway - you create rights of access over the land without purchasing the ownership. yes, you may have to pay compensation but in most cases this is minimal and much lower than the land value. but its rights of way law so generally 'all too difficult' by often brain dead council staff.
That's interesting - thanks.
gbnz
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by gbnz »

Pete Owens wrote: 2 Feb 2023, 6:25pm The key thing is that transport infrastructure needs to follow sensible routes, not whatever fragments of land landowners are prepared to allow.
Yes, but isn't that an approach taken by the Romans? The layout of Roman roads in my region is extraordinary, whereas only a quick comparison with the layout of railway lines from the 1800's onwards, shows that it doesn't happen any more. As does something as simple as the route of the A1, with parallel sections of the A1 built and abandoned during my lifetime, in some cases, being built on another parallel route another 20-30 years later.

But to be fair, there are benefits to living in a society where roads, paths, railway lines and the like, can't always follow a sensible route.
Nearholmer
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by Nearholmer »

There are benefits to living in a society where a colonist from a distant land can’t slap down roads wherever they fancy in order to facilitate the mobility of their troops and thereby the subjugation of the locals.

What did the Romans ever do for us, eh?
mattheus
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by mattheus »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Feb 2023, 1:10pm There are benefits to living in a society where a colonist from a distant land can’t slap down roads wherever they fancy in order to facilitate the mobility of their troops and thereby the subjugation of the locals.

What did the Romans ever do for us, eh?
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cycle tramp
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by cycle tramp »

Having read the news column- there's an underplayed bit of information, in that it appears the council wishes to built a secondary school at one of the locations for 900 children.

Those who've done a bit of time in planning childen's journey's from their places of education will be aware that if a road has no pavement then the school has to provide public transport, to and from their plaof learning.

What we have isn't a council which actually wishes to build a walking and cycling route between the two locations not out of concern for the environment, but because it may cost less than actually providing a bus service from one location to the other location to get kids to and from school.

So they don't want to build it next to the rail track asthe safety features they'll have to put in will cost too much, they can't build on the areas that flood because if it does flood the kids have a bona fide reason that they can't go to school and they aren't prepared to do, what might be the simplist of things, which is to construct a pavement and cycleway by the side of the road which doesn't have these features.

The council have gone for the cheapest option, of putting it through farmland and then expecting the farmers to have to pay an increased amount in insurance, an increase in checking that the ground and trees are safe and the increased cost of litter and associated threats to animals.
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pwa
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by pwa »

Surely any route designed to give kids a safe way of getting to school and back should be placed where there are always people about, for security reasons, not meandering through farmland.
cycle tramp
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by cycle tramp »

pwa wrote: 3 Feb 2023, 4:48pm Surely any route designed to give kids a safe way of getting to school and back should be placed where there are always people about, for security reasons, not meandering through farmland.
You would have hoped so. And being rural it fails to take into consideration the effects of bad whether such as snow and ice.. But it's all down to money; the dealbreaker being does the planned cycle route cost less than the business contact to a coach hire company to ferry the kids.

If the route costs more than the coach company's contract then they'll stick with the coach company, and produce some bad press against the landowner about how it was all their fault the route didn't go through.
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Zulu Eleven wrote: 3 Feb 2023, 9:11am Compulsory purchase is generally not needed, but some councils seem to be wedded to the idea of it being the only option if a landowner won't 'agree' to something - to the point where they waste huge sumps of public money and get nowhere.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ow-8091328

Why buy the land when you don't need to? Section 26 Highways act 1980 gives creation powers for public rights of way - footpath, bridleway, restricted byway - you create rights of access over the land without purchasing the ownership. yes, you may have to pay compensation but in most cases this is minimal and much lower than the land value. but its rights of way law so generally 'all too difficult' by often brain dead council staff.
But what does 'creation of a right of way' mean in that context? Creating a right without any infrastructure, such as an all-weather surface, wouldn't be very useful in this case.
Zulu Eleven
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Re: Compulsory Purchase

Post by Zulu Eleven »

Yes, it includes the powers to constrict and surface a route, fences, barriers etc. as necessary. Use of highways powers also normally removes need for planning permission.
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