Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

[thirdcrank]

Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes

[Tiberius]

The warranty period and the wording of the warranties on a number of British titanium bikes, pushed me towards Van Nicholas.

They say.....

Van Nicholas will replace (not repair) any Titanium frame that fails due to manufacturer defects in materials or workmanship for the lifetime of the frame. Every bicycle has a limited life, the so-called useable life-cycle. The duration of the useable life-cycle of bicycles depends on the type of frame, the way in which and the circumstances under which the bicycle is ridden and the care/maintenance the bicycle receives. The lifetime guarantee period is established on the basis of the duration of the useable life cycle of the bicycle. Van Nicholas sets the lifetime of their frames at an average of 25 years.

[Bmblbzzz]

Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes

I don't think we've seen a photo of the dropouts, have we?

[AlanW]

Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes

Curious what makes you think that as there is no photo of the dropouts?

[cycleruk]

Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes

Curious what makes you think that as there is no photo of the dropouts?

I had the same thoughts due to this statement saying that the wheel pulled over. :-
"However, and as you have noticed in the second image, yes, the wheel pulled over a few weeks ago and rubbed on the inside of the chain stay. Its only ever done it once to the extent of the tyre rubbing on the frame. That said I have suffered with the wheel pulling over to a much lesser degree on quite a few occasions over the years. I've put this down the hardness of the titanium dropouts, and the serrations on the Q/R wheel skewer not biting into the material to hold the wheel 100% secure. In truth 99% of the time, it's okay and it's not a problem, but if for whatever reason I launch a spirited sprint it can result in a minor misalignment of the wheel. I just have to make sure that I have the skewer much tighter than I am comfortable with."

[mattheus]

The warranty period and the wording of the warranties on a number of British titanium bikes, pushed me towards Van Nicholas.

I *happen* to have a 2nd-hand VN (well actually an Airborne!), but I'd probably agree with you, if I was to buy a new Ti frame.

Because of the very *special* welding setup required, I think you get what you pay for. I might be tempted by a chinese/internet type of deal if it were sufficiently cheap.

I met a couple of very convincing brothers from Lithuania(?) at Bespoked in Bristol (2019?) when I was thinking of getting a bespoke f+f made. Of course they might now be bankrupt ...

[AlanW]

Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes

Curious what makes you think that as there is no photo of the dropouts?

I had the same thoughts due to this statement saying that the wheel pulled over. :-
"However, and as you have noticed in the second image, yes, the wheel pulled over a few weeks ago and rubbed on the inside of the chain stay. Its only ever done it once to the extent of the tyre rubbing on the frame. That said I have suffered with the wheel pulling over to a much lesser degree on quite a few occasions over the years. I've put this down the hardness of the titanium dropouts, and the serrations on the Q/R wheel skewer not biting into the material to hold the wheel 100% secure. In truth 99% of the time, it's okay and it's not a problem, but if for whatever reason I launch a spirited sprint it can result in a minor misalignment of the wheel. I just have to make sure that I have the skewer much tighter than I am comfortable with."

Really sorry, but I must be missing something, but I still cannot see any reference being made to it having horizontal dropouts?

[thirdcrank]

The absence of any obvious info about the dropouts caused my curiosity. I thoght horizontal dropouts were history on modern road frames. ie I thought vertical dropouts were standard these days. Not a big deal. Sorry I asked

[Cowsham]

in the original image the wheel looks to be very close to that 'stay.

in the image with the ;guard removed there seems to be a rub mark on the affected part.

did the wheel habitually rub the stay when pedalling hard?

Of course not -- He'd just come in from a near 70 miles ride on it -- that would be like pedaling with the rear brakes on !

not to mean "constantly rubbing away like a grinding wheel" more "the occasional flick when honking uphill" which, over time, adds up.

Sorry -- what do I know -- I've never had that happen but Alan has admitted that has happened -- another case for through axles.

[Bmblbzzz]

Any axle can move in the drop outs if not tightened sufficiently. Even a through axle has a little play, though it would never twist or move enough for the tyre to contact the chainstays.

[Identicalbutlighter]

That's not an uncommon site for them to break, stress riser. I've repaired a couple that went in the same place (not Kinesis), welded new chain-stays in. Still going strong. I didn't refit a bridge there on the basis that it caused the trouble.
Not the simplest job though.
I've also seen longitudinal cracks in Ti tubes, I always assumed it was because the tubing was welded from sheet and drawn into tubes. I think I've repaired more Ti than any other material, although carbon doesn't like being thumped much titanium does rather like to crack if given the opportunity.

[iandusud]

Is a bike frame that fails like this after 5 years fit for purpose. I would say not. In which the length of the warranty is irrelevant.

[Tiberius]

I met a couple of very convincing brothers from Lithuania(?) at Bespoked in Bristol (2019?) when I was thinking of getting a bespoke f+f made. Of course they might now be bankrupt ...

The Lithuanians know about titanium bikes. I thought long and hard about getting Wittson to build me a frame. They answered all my emails promptly and went out of their way to explain exactly how they did things. Ultimately the lack of dealers and the rambling warranty put me off.

Nice things though..... https://wittson.com/

Edit - I wish that I hadn't posted that link - I thought that I had got over any thoughts of a Wittson Effugio/Rohloff.........Here we go again.....

[francovendee]

I wonder what grade of titanium alloy is used to make these frames.
I seem to remember pure titanium is very soft but alloys can have amazing strength.
Where's our new Brucie?

[mattheus]

I met a couple of very convincing brothers from Lithuania(?) at Bespoked in Bristol (2019?) when I was thinking of getting a bespoke f+f made. Of course they might now be bankrupt ...

The Lithuanians know about titanium bikes. I thought long and hard about getting Wittson to build me a frame. They answered all my emails promptly and went out of their way to explain exactly how they did things. Ultimately the lack of dealers and the rambling warranty put me off.

Nice things though..... https://wittson.com/

Edit - I wish that I hadn't posted that link - I thought that I had got over any thoughts of a Wittson Effugio/Rohloff.........Here we go again.....

Dats ma boys!