Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by roubaixtuesday »

francovendee wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 8:09am I wonder what grade of titanium alloy is used to make these frames.
I seem to remember pure titanium is very soft but alloys can have amazing strength.
It's alloyed with a bit of Aluminium and some other stuff

As with steel tubing, the construction is as important s the alloy.

Some info here

https://www.reillycycleworks.com/blogs/ ... ium-we-use
francovendee
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by francovendee »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 8:56am
francovendee wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 8:09am I wonder what grade of titanium alloy is used to make these frames.
I seem to remember pure titanium is very soft but alloys can have amazing strength.
It's alloyed with a bit of Aluminium and some other stuff

As with steel tubing, the construction is as important s the alloy.

Some info here

https://www.reillycycleworks.com/blogs/ ... ium-we-use
Thanks for the link, it seems they can be grade 9 (most common) or grade 5.
You can compromise the best materials with flaws in design and manufacture.
swagman
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by swagman »

A bad weld I'd say weakening the surrounding metal that has to resist the pedaling forces against the chainstay, causing the crack.
swagman
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by swagman »

The basic problem is atmospheric contamination such that the weld zone can become very crack sensitive.
borisface
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by borisface »

swagman wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 11:24am A bad weld I'd say weakening the surrounding metal that has to resist the pedaling forces against the chainstay, causing the crack.
Years ago, I had an orbit 653 road bike that cracked in the same place after a few months, they admitted that it was probably due to the metal being over heated in the manufacturing process and replaced it.

However, this was the third frame (one an elderly gillot, another a newish witcomb) which cracked in the same place over a period of 4-5 years. My feeling being a young first cat rider was that it was something to do with my pedalling action and the forces placed on the chainstays which had caused the issue. Now I'm in my mid-50s, it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue.
fastpedaller
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by fastpedaller »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 8 Feb 2023, 1:20pm
thirdcrank wrote: 8 Feb 2023, 10:20am Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes
I don't think we've seen a photo of the dropouts, have we?
I can understand the question about the dropouts - for the wheel to pull over enough to rub the chainstay (if vertical dropouts) the tyre would have to be very close, even when central, or very loose in the vertical dropouts.
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AlanW
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by AlanW »

fastpedaller wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 2:15pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 8 Feb 2023, 1:20pm
thirdcrank wrote: 8 Feb 2023, 10:20am Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes
I don't think we've seen a photo of the dropouts, have we?
I can understand the question about the dropouts - for the wheel to pull over enough to rub the chainstay (if vertical dropouts) the tyre would have to be very close, even when central, or very loose in the vertical dropouts.
At the time when the wheel pulled over and rubbed on the chainstay I was running 28mm tyres. To be fair it was all very tight, but I had done hundreds of miles without any issues, maybe in hindsight probably too tight? But after that and to avoid a repeat situation, I made two amendments to the bike:-

1) Went back to running 25mm tyres. Pro4 Endurance tyres come up large, so the 28mm tyres were at least 30mm and the 25mm are nearer to 28mm anyway.

2) Put a 5mm spacer between the mudguard and the chainstay bridge to put the mudguard a little closer to the tyre so if the wheel pulled over again the tyre would rub on the inside of the mudguard as opposed to the inside of the chain stay.
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"
oldtimer99
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by oldtimer99 »

Did you pay by credit card......use section 75
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AlanW
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by AlanW »

oldtimer99 wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 6:15pm Did you pay by credit card......use section 75
Would that still be applicable if the bike came with three years warranty and it has failed after 4.5 years (even the mileage ridden was considerably low)
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Identicalbutlighter
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by Identicalbutlighter »

francovendee wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 8:09am I wonder what grade of titanium alloy is used to make these frames.
I seem to remember pure titanium is very soft but alloys can have amazing strength.
Where's our new Brucie?
For bike use it's usually grade 9 (3-25) for the tubes and grade 5 ( or 6-4) for plated bits like dropouts, grade 9 seems to come annealed, non annealed (and partially annealed I think) depending on whether you want to manipulate it from it's tubular form ie. bend it for stays etc. Grade 5 is hard - if you try and bend it it snaps. I've seen both dropouts and tubes fail. I think exhausts are made from grade 2. "Strong" I suppose becomes perhaps less important than resilient.

The big issue is you don't always know what you're getting if buying from some sources, if you want to be sure you buy "mill certified" materials. I know the flash custom builders will always stick with certified materials, you "pays yer price and teks yer choice" :wink:
Ultimately you can't tell how good the materials are for many frames, and Ti is entertainingly troublesome, I love it but certainly regard it with massive suspicion.

A proper expert might come along with the tube lowdown. I only know as much as I know from building a few frames with it.
thirdcrank
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by thirdcrank »

fastpedaller wrote: 9 Feb 2023, 2:15pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 8 Feb 2023, 1:20pm
thirdcrank wrote: 8 Feb 2023, 10:20am Confused numptie here. Does the broken Ti frame have horizontal dropouts? FWIW I thought they were obsolete on road bikes
I don't think we've seen a photo of the dropouts, have we?
I can understand the question about the dropouts - for the wheel to pull over enough to rub the chainstay (if vertical dropouts) the tyre would have to be very close, even when central, or very loose in the vertical dropouts.
What I was getting at was that when the wheel pulling over might have been the sign that the frame had broken at that point
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AlanW
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by AlanW »

£1200 is the final offer from Kenisis.....full stop.

So, I guess it's now down to me to decide if I want to take a punt and get another frame from Kinesis with five years warranty or spend double and go with a Reilly that has a lifetime warranty.
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"
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cycleruk
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by cycleruk »

Spa offer 10 years warrantee :-
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p2 ... Frame-Only

Half tempted myself. But the stable is full really. :roll:
You'll never know if you don't try it.
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AlanW
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by AlanW »

cycleruk wrote: 10 Feb 2023, 1:44pm Spa offer 10 years warrantee :-
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p2 ... Frame-Only

Half tempted myself. But the stable is full really. :roll:
Yes, just looking at them as l type!!
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"
gcogger
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Re: Kinesis Titanium Owners - Take Note!

Post by gcogger »

Sonder do too, e.g.
https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-coli ... e-and-fork

Edit: oh, hang on, you were after a rim brake frame, I think?
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