Salary of representatives throughout UK
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Salary of representatives throughout UK
Just been looking up salaries of various senior public offices around the UK. The way the Scottish Parliament and the senedd give their top jobs the same pay as the other representatives bit with an additional top up is a very clear way of putting it.
Of course I do wonder how the total salaries are worked out. For example Scottish first minister gets paid more than the UK prime minister. The Welsh version gets less. Is that fair? Should they be on the same or is there a hierarchy of responsibility and as a result salary differences can be explained even if currently not right.
I'm curious as the devolved roles are relatively new so I wonder whether there was a process to determine the Scottish FM should get more vs the Welsh less? Anyone know. Anyone have an opinion of the pay of the three top jobs?
Sorry for not including northern Ireland assembly in Stormont. Perhaps best to leave it out right now since there's no incumbent for the top position currently sworn in.
Of course I do wonder how the total salaries are worked out. For example Scottish first minister gets paid more than the UK prime minister. The Welsh version gets less. Is that fair? Should they be on the same or is there a hierarchy of responsibility and as a result salary differences can be explained even if currently not right.
I'm curious as the devolved roles are relatively new so I wonder whether there was a process to determine the Scottish FM should get more vs the Welsh less? Anyone know. Anyone have an opinion of the pay of the three top jobs?
Sorry for not including northern Ireland assembly in Stormont. Perhaps best to leave it out right now since there's no incumbent for the top position currently sworn in.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
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Last edited by Nearholmer on 7 Feb 2023, 1:49pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
To have an opinion, I think it’s necessary to know what the salaries are. It may be that Rishi Sunak is underpaid given what he is accountable for, unpopular as it will doubtless be to say that. Added to which, what are the perks? That can make a huge difference.
Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
There's a complicated array of scales, comparison factors, and reviews that are designed to be independent. They're all publicly available, and it's never been quicker, easier or cheaper to find them.
And, as above, expenses, perks and pensions need to be taken into account for many comparisons with how other people are paid.
And there's a current fashion for not taking the full pay that's available.
Jonathan
And, as above, expenses, perks and pensions need to be taken into account for many comparisons with how other people are paid.
And there's a current fashion for not taking the full pay that's available.
What do you mean by "fair"? I'd like to be sure that the remuneration is set in a way that's as transparent and independent as possible, and high enough not to deter appropriate candidates. I'm not bothered if it isn't identical across the various bodies.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑7 Feb 2023, 1:34pm Of course I do wonder how the total salaries are worked out. For example Scottish first minister gets paid more than the UK prime minister. The Welsh version gets less. Is that fair? Should they be on the same or is there a hierarchy of responsibility and as a result salary differences can be explained even if currently not right.
I'm curious as the devolved roles are relatively new so I wonder whether there was a process to determine the Scottish FM should get more vs the Welsh less? Anyone know. Anyone have an opinion of the pay of the three top jobs?
Jonathan
Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
You need to look at more than pay. Some office come with very nice pensions, and expenses coverage for a lot of thing such as personal residences, etc. Straight salary comparison will be very misleading.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
Of course but from my brief Google there's not an official comparison between all that. So far .gov for UK, Welsh assembly and Scottish Parliament websites don't give the full remuneration packages only salary. So I've not been able to compare the full package.
One thing to point out is the residences if the PM and the FM of Scotland but the FM of Wales doesn't have an official residence. Our of those tyre Welsh FM gets paid the least. All down to optics back when the post first came up. Referendum result was closer so the new, labour fm wanted to have the optics of less pomp and cost than Westminster and holyrood, hence no official residence.
So there's one thing the Welsh fm isn't getting as a perk.
So does anyone have a view on the remuneration of these three roles? What about responsibilities? In my ignorance I'd assume it's Welsh, Scottish then UK pm in increasing responsibility so perhaps increasing remuneration. Westminster has a reasonable pay off when you leave parliament and I assume better when leave number 10.
One thing to point out is the residences if the PM and the FM of Scotland but the FM of Wales doesn't have an official residence. Our of those tyre Welsh FM gets paid the least. All down to optics back when the post first came up. Referendum result was closer so the new, labour fm wanted to have the optics of less pomp and cost than Westminster and holyrood, hence no official residence.
So there's one thing the Welsh fm isn't getting as a perk.
So does anyone have a view on the remuneration of these three roles? What about responsibilities? In my ignorance I'd assume it's Welsh, Scottish then UK pm in increasing responsibility so perhaps increasing remuneration. Westminster has a reasonable pay off when you leave parliament and I assume better when leave number 10.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
My enquiry started following a report about the Scottish FM's partner's 100k loan to the SNP and various other questions about income. Apparently she said her only income is from being the first minister. That got me interested in what the others got paid. Last time I bothered being interested the pm got close to 100k!
It's just my curiosity about it. Considering most people with the ability to run large government departments or indeed the government are likely to be earning more elsewhere. Hence you can't just talk pure salary. There's something else keeping them there. However even on a pure pay packet you can get value comparing pay I reckon.
It's just my curiosity about it. Considering most people with the ability to run large government departments or indeed the government are likely to be earning more elsewhere. Hence you can't just talk pure salary. There's something else keeping them there. However even on a pure pay packet you can get value comparing pay I reckon.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
Reporting on this story the Telegraph noted that Sturgeon earned £140,496 in 2021-22 and that she is entitled to a salary of £163,229, but SNP ministers have voluntarily frozen their pay since 2009.
I'm never sure what to make of these voluntary refusals to take the full pay, it feels like a bit of stick with which to beat your opponents when they may come into power. If any of Sturgeon's Green Party coalition colleagues is or becomes a minister l wonder if they do the same?
I'm never sure what to make of these voluntary refusals to take the full pay, it feels like a bit of stick with which to beat your opponents when they may come into power. If any of Sturgeon's Green Party coalition colleagues is or becomes a minister l wonder if they do the same?
Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
Just published:
"Smoothing the cliff edge: supporting MPs at their point of departure from elected office":
https://committees.parliament.uk/public ... 7/default/
Jonathan
"Smoothing the cliff edge: supporting MPs at their point of departure from elected office":
https://committees.parliament.uk/public ... 7/default/
Jonathan
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
I read that she was only about 2 or 4k off the maximum. I think that was from the Scottish Parliament website. As was Welsh fm and
The pm
The pm
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
My instinct is that people in their positions:
- need to be paid enough to live on at a “comfortable” level, not be rubbing along worrying about the gas bill, and taking into account things like domestic/childcare costs that come with needing to attend to the job 24/7/365;
- not be paid so much that the salary in itself is an inducement to seek the role;
- not be put to penalising expense by taking the role, because that would shut out all but the very wealthy (and tends to imply an official residence close to the seat of government, to avoid the cost of a second home or the time of commuting);
- receive a decent pension, probably related to length of service in elected office.
In short, the package needs to ensure inclusivity, but not allow a jamboree.
I have a feeling that the UK PM role may have a package based on the outdated notion that any PM must already be a member of the landed aristocracy, so needs a salary only to pay for cigars and whisky.
£163k to be FM of Scotland doesn’t feel out of kilter (or kilt) to me.
- need to be paid enough to live on at a “comfortable” level, not be rubbing along worrying about the gas bill, and taking into account things like domestic/childcare costs that come with needing to attend to the job 24/7/365;
- not be paid so much that the salary in itself is an inducement to seek the role;
- not be put to penalising expense by taking the role, because that would shut out all but the very wealthy (and tends to imply an official residence close to the seat of government, to avoid the cost of a second home or the time of commuting);
- receive a decent pension, probably related to length of service in elected office.
In short, the package needs to ensure inclusivity, but not allow a jamboree.
I have a feeling that the UK PM role may have a package based on the outdated notion that any PM must already be a member of the landed aristocracy, so needs a salary only to pay for cigars and whisky.
£163k to be FM of Scotland doesn’t feel out of kilter (or kilt) to me.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
My thoughts echo those of Nearholmer above.
I do think that politicians should be fairly paid and that to allow the really capable to offer public service they shouldn’t have to forgo earnings potential elsewhere. Let’s not forget that whilst we plebs might think that the PM gets paid a lot they are relatively poorly paid compared to the CEO’s and Chairman of large companies. Of course some Tory party MP’s are very rich in their own right and have no need of their salary, they might be happy for the post’s salary to be low because it puts off the opposition …
As they say ‘if you pay peanuts you get monkeys’, in this case we got the likes of Boris and Truss.
I do think that politicians should be fairly paid and that to allow the really capable to offer public service they shouldn’t have to forgo earnings potential elsewhere. Let’s not forget that whilst we plebs might think that the PM gets paid a lot they are relatively poorly paid compared to the CEO’s and Chairman of large companies. Of course some Tory party MP’s are very rich in their own right and have no need of their salary, they might be happy for the post’s salary to be low because it puts off the opposition …
As they say ‘if you pay peanuts you get monkeys’, in this case we got the likes of Boris and Truss.
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Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
If they're paid the same the the peanuts / monkey comment would surely apply to those MPs you do like. Starmer is a much a monkey as other MPs based on pay alone!
My view is that there's at least an element of vocation to being an mp,msp or assembly member. You want talent but talent that wants to serve even if that means losing out on the big paychecks. Sacrifice and service but a comfortable standard of living even with the extra costs of public service.
My other view is that there should be a pay scale within the roles of the various administrations of power. In descending responsibility if you like. So MP gets more than Scottish FM, who gets more than Welsh FM due to there being greater power invested with greater devolved powers. Pay could be salary plus other remunerations. Perhaps official residence could be part of that, in which case Welsh FM might need more money to offset lack of residence.
As said before I couldn't find anything out about the relative value of the total remuneration packages between the three top offices. From what I could find indications are the Scottish FM gets the better package. Not least on the pension payments alone.
According to reports of her released tax data,
Sturgeon has paid out tax on contributions due to pension contributions above the 40k mark this last year. An 8k tax bill. There is a way to use up to 3 years of previous years contributions less than this 40k limit to offset current year over contributions but not if you've over contributed in previous years like she has. One year she got a 10k tax bill off a nearly 60k pension contributions. Whatever the situation there's a pot of iirc 600k from the released information. You remember that she released her tax account/ details and challenged other leaders to do likewise. So it's all out there if you understand it all, I don't I've got to rely on summaries for the general public in media outlets.
I doubt any of the pm / FM s will be anything but well worth off from their political life.
My view is that there's at least an element of vocation to being an mp,msp or assembly member. You want talent but talent that wants to serve even if that means losing out on the big paychecks. Sacrifice and service but a comfortable standard of living even with the extra costs of public service.
My other view is that there should be a pay scale within the roles of the various administrations of power. In descending responsibility if you like. So MP gets more than Scottish FM, who gets more than Welsh FM due to there being greater power invested with greater devolved powers. Pay could be salary plus other remunerations. Perhaps official residence could be part of that, in which case Welsh FM might need more money to offset lack of residence.
As said before I couldn't find anything out about the relative value of the total remuneration packages between the three top offices. From what I could find indications are the Scottish FM gets the better package. Not least on the pension payments alone.
According to reports of her released tax data,
Sturgeon has paid out tax on contributions due to pension contributions above the 40k mark this last year. An 8k tax bill. There is a way to use up to 3 years of previous years contributions less than this 40k limit to offset current year over contributions but not if you've over contributed in previous years like she has. One year she got a 10k tax bill off a nearly 60k pension contributions. Whatever the situation there's a pot of iirc 600k from the released information. You remember that she released her tax account/ details and challenged other leaders to do likewise. So it's all out there if you understand it all, I don't I've got to rely on summaries for the general public in media outlets.
I doubt any of the pm / FM s will be anything but well worth off from their political life.
Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
That's advocating a centralised system for setting remuneration. Why would that be better than devolving the decisions?Tangled Metal wrote: ↑8 Feb 2023, 4:28pm ...
My other view is that there should be a pay scale within the roles of the various administrations of power. In descending responsibility if you like. So MP gets more than Scottish FM, who gets more than Welsh FM due to there being greater power invested with greater devolved powers. Pay could be salary plus other remunerations. Perhaps official residence could be part of that, in which case Welsh FM might need more money to offset lack of residence.
...
Thanks
Jonathan
Re: Salary of representatives throughout UK
Westminster salaries need a major overhaul generally i think.
Salaries probably up, but housing and associated expenses eliminated (accommodation should be provided, removing the need for second homes). The various ministerial severance payouts need minimum service term and then a tapered increase to a maximum after.
Salaries probably up, but housing and associated expenses eliminated (accommodation should be provided, removing the need for second homes). The various ministerial severance payouts need minimum service term and then a tapered increase to a maximum after.
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