inner tube - weights & longevity

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by simonineaston »

Hi, my winter bike suffered a flat in the week and after carefully examining the tyre (a barely-worn Vredestein S-Lick) & the inner tube (a Schwalbe 6A - described as 'extra-light'), I've failed to find an obvious cause of the very very small hole in the tube, which results in a gradual collapse of the tyre pressure - what I think of as a 'slow p******e'.
Do you, dear reader, associate these super-light inner tubes with an additonal risk of p******es? Shall I simply go back to using Schwalbe's heavier products?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by Cugel »

simonineaston wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 10:00am Hi, my winter bike suffered a flat in the week and after carefully examining the tyre (a barely-worn Vredestein S-Lick) & the inner tube (a Schwalbe 6A - described as 'extra-light'), I've failed to find an obvious cause of the very very small hole in the tube, which results in a gradual collapse of the tyre pressure - what I think of as a 'slow p******e'.
Do you, dear reader, associate these super-light inner tubes with an additonal risk of p******es? Shall I simply go back to using Schwalbe's heavier products?
A good while ago now, when I still had the racer's speed obsession, lightweight inner tubes went under the tyres, whatever type they were. The tyre qualities are the primary anti-puncture barrier but it did seem that the lightweight inner tubes were also .... fragile. They were easily damaged, although more often by clumsy putting on and taking off of the tyre by me than by road-found tyre stabbers.

I suppose it's possible also that, being fragile, the lightweight tubes succumb more readily to an internal rub or other poor interface between the tyre and the tube or the tube and the rim.

As the years passed and the technical information about tyre matters increased, I came to see that saving 50 gms on an inner tube was pointless unless I was ever to get fast enough to be in the elite races - highly unlikely as I am far too lazy and lacking in ambition. The standard inner tubes adopted since then have proved more resistant to my clumsy tyre management antics. :-)

But why bother with inner tubes at all, these days? Tubeless has now got good enough, even in narrower tyres down to about 28mm wide, that we could all wean ourselves off the tube and find we have to deal far less often with punctures, whilst also enjoying an improved comfort and rolling resistance.

Personally I have a few sets of wheels remaining with tubes under their tyres but these will gradually be sold; or have their tyres replaced by tubeless, if the rims are suitable, as with all the other wheelsets I have.

Cugel
Last edited by Cugel on 20 Feb 2023, 9:02am, edited 1 time in total.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by thirdcrank »

I know zilch or less about tubeless cycle tyres.

IME, the big difference is between the once universal latex and the modern butyl.

Latex goes down quite quickly even without a puncture: needs a top-up every 2-3 days on tour and just before the start of anything competitive. OTOH, it does seem to be more resistant to minor punctures.

Butyl stays inflated much longer - if not quite indefinitely. It seems much more easily punctured eg by abrasion. A tiny lodged sharp will eventually get through. The traditional method of puncture repair involved thoroughly abrading the surface of the tube: some repair outfits included a metal grater. I've found that a nail board (? for filing fingernails) fits nicely in the "long cycle" tins but care is needed as it's easy to file through a butyl tube. ime
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by simonineaston »

Iv'e decided to err on the side of caution - it's not as if my cycling style will benefit from the grams saved by using the extra-light. Wheel is now set aside, pumped up, just to check that it stays inflated :-)
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
axel_knutt
Posts: 2881
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by axel_knutt »

The metal grater is for the French chalk, my puncture repair kits always had a scrap of sandpaper in for roughening the tube, but I dispensed with that for fear it would get blown away in the wind. For the last 20 odd years I've been using the small wire brush out of a car puncture kit.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by thirdcrank »

axel_knutt wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 12:37pm The metal grater is for the French chalk, my puncture repair kits always had a scrap of sandpaper in for roughening the tube, but I dispensed with that for fear it would get blown away in the wind. For the last 20 odd years I've been using the small wire brush out of a car puncture kit.
:oops: Failing memory is my excuse. :oops:
User avatar
plancashire
Posts: 545
Joined: 22 Apr 2007, 10:49am
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by plancashire »

I have given up on Schwalbe inner tubes. They often develop tiny holes or fail near the valve. Michelin never did this. So far Continental ones are working well. Schwalbe outer tyres are OK but the rubber compound can be very variable.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton M3 and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by Mick F »

I've given up with Schwalbe inner tubes too, but I have four spares for the two bikes.

I don't like them - not because I have punctures - it's because of the leaky removable valve cores. It's very surprising how tight they have to be to withstand 120psi or more.
Mick F. Cornwall
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by simonineaston »

I'm now using Continental inner tubes.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by Cugel »

Mick F wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 3:12pm I've given up with Schwalbe inner tubes too, but I have four spares for the two bikes.

I don't like them - not because I have punctures - it's because of the leaky removable valve cores. It's very surprising how tight they have to be to withstand 120psi or more.
120 psi! Are you still on them 19mm wide tyres of yesteryear then?

Removable valve cores are rather useful. One does need to tighten them to the optimum torque, grease the outer thread used by screw-on pump connectors and carry a valve cap with a slot, or similar small tool, to tighten the cores when necessary.

Cugel, probably no longer strong enough to pump a tyre up to 120 psi without straining me wrist.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by Mick F »

23mm 700c on the Mercian and used to be 19mm.
28mm 406 on the Moulton.

I keep records ............ :oops:
Last puncture on Mercian was back in Sept 2015, and on Moulton was Feb 2021.
Mick F. Cornwall
User avatar
gazza_d
Posts: 453
Joined: 30 Oct 2016, 8:20am

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by gazza_d »

Food for thought there about Schwable inner tubes
I have just binned one that has developed a string of tiny holes with no obvious cause and another couple which are old but now seem to be quite "porous" and need reinflating every couple of days.

I think it may be time to switch to either Conti or Kenda or even a mix
User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 6044
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by foxyrider »

gazza_d wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 6:16pm Food for thought there about Schwable inner tubes
I have just binned one that has developed a string of tiny holes with no obvious cause and another couple which are old but now seem to be quite "porous" and need reinflating every couple of days.
I've just had to restock with Schwalbe tubes - they are the only mfr who make the 520 size my Airnimal uses :( The other bikes have whatever is cheap at the time!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
peetee
Posts: 4292
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by peetee »

gazza_d wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 6:16pm Food for thought there about Schwable inner tubes
I have just binned one that has developed a string of tiny holes with no obvious cause and another couple which are old but now seem to be quite "porous" and need reinflating every couple of days.
A couple of years ago I regularly bought Impac brand tubes for use in my workshop. I also fitted them to the tyres on my kids bikes and my son was always complaining that his tyres were soft. It also seemed to be happening to my courtesy bike so I naturally suspected the tube brand.
Impac is the budget brand offered by Schwalbe but so far the instances of quality control issues seems far more prevalent with products marked with the parent brand. One could argue that members of this forum and the discerning public in general are far more likely to choose Schwalbe over Impac so we will hear about more problems but it does strongly suggest that there is a cross-over in production and that the expected price/quality difference is somewhat blurred, especially when I add that I used to sell Impac tyres too and never once happened upon a distorted carcass, exposed bead, rough internal face (all Schwalbe traits, IME) or any other issue bar a tendency to suffer relatively rapid wear in use.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: inner tube - weights & longevity

Post by PH »

I'm using Schwalbe Extra Light No18. The same eight tubes across two bikes for at least the last five years, two tubes still unused. I haven't noticed any increase in punctures compared to any other tube, I've had a bad start to this year in that regard, though it follows a couple of good years on the same tyres and tubes. The only downside is they do need topping up a little more frequently, though that's not a bad habit to get into anyway.
I've twice had issues with punctures from something other than something penetrating the tyre, once a bit of grit left in the tyre and the other a cut that left a rough hole in the carcass, both of those were on tubes used prior to the No18's. I can see in those instances that the thicker the tube the more resistance it might offer, otherwise if something has managed to pierce the tyre the thickness of the tube isn't going to make any difference.
Are lighter tubes better? Well, I'm unconvinced there's enough difference for me to notice while riding, but there is an advantage in being able to carry two spares in little more than the space of one standard.
Post Reply