Traffic light camera being set off by bicycles

[jimster99]

Hi all,

Someone (not me...ahem) set off a traffic light camera recently by cycling over a junction in London after the lights had changed. Not sure of exact location but it was on one of the main roads (possibly A24) heading south towards Morden around Collier's Wood / Tooting Bec in London and it was very bright (lots of flashes!). Lots of other cyclists were doing the same and also getting flashed.

Is this something to avoid in future? Could cyclists get points on their driving licence if identified? Obviously there's no number plate so identification would be difficult. But do the police ever follow these up? Is there going to be a Bicycle Traffic Light Jumping Enforcement SWAT Team coming through the miscreant's doors at 5am a few weeks from now? (Joking...mostly....)

[irc]

No. You can't get points for a cycling offence.

[simonhill]

...but you can get fined.

If happening regularly then maybe a copper or two may wait the other side and stop the miscreants. Hard to deny when there's a nice photo of your back side.

[peetee]

No. You can't get points for a cycling offence.

That’s a shame, it still has the potential to cause reckless endangerment to pedestrians and vehicles taking avoiding action.

[jimster99]

Thanks - so no points, but it's still an offence to jump a red light on a bike (I think?)

On a tangent I once saw a bunch of police officers in the City of London apprehending unhappy commuters and giving them FPNs for jumping the lights (a bit like shooting fish in a barrel at 8.45 on a weekday morning). Luckily I was on foot that day otherwise I'd have quite possibly joined those arriving at work in a grumpy mood.

Obviously in real life I would never jump a red light but speaking purely hypotehetically if you were to do so it's important to follow a three point procedure:

1. Is it clear of cars in all directions.
2. Are there any pedestrians potentially crossing
3. Are any policemen hiding behind a lamppost?

If the answers are yes - no - no then in my view You Should Be Good To Go

It would in theory also be sensible to check for police cars behind you (easily seen during the lifesaver check and important as while at uni "a friend" (who wasn't me...honest) once didn't see police car following him as he flew (safely) through a red light. They let him off ... but it could have ended badly.

One could even try to look for undercover officers in unmarked cars (of which there are surprisingly large numbers in London although most with more important things on their mind than cycles I assume). You have to look inside the car!

[jimster99]

No. You can't get points for a cycling offence.

That’s a shame, it still has the potential to cause reckless endangerment to pedestrians and vehicles taking avoiding action.

I think there are two types of light jumpers:

1 - The people who fly through lights getting close to pedestrians/other cars and risking their own lives. This is obviously wrong and they should be fined.

2 - The people who yield at the lights and only proceed when it's absolutely clear and no-one is crossing. This is obviously fine and should be allowed. (as in the "Idaho Stop" I just discovered and which I am intending to be an enthusiastic supporter of going forwards).

Unfortunately both (1) and (2) currently not allowed.

[simonineaston]

As I've already commented elsewhere recently, I spent a few days in Copenhagen a couple weeks ago and was impressed by the organisation of major routes through the city.
In summary, there are cycle paths, often one per direction, co-ordinated crossings and very clear space demarkation. Guess what? Everybody respects the crossing controls, nobody runs lights or jumps the gun and as a consequence, everybody is calm, cheerful and safe.

[mjr]

No. You can't get points for a cycling offence.

That’s a shame, it still has the potential to cause reckless endangerment to pedestrians and vehicles taking avoiding action.

I think there are two types of light jumpers:

1 - The people who fly through lights getting close to pedestrians/other cars and risking their own lives. This is obviously wrong and they should be fined.

2 - The people who yield at the lights and only proceed when it's absolutely clear and no-one is crossing. This is obviously fine and should be allowed. (as in the "Idaho Stop" I just discovered and which I am intending to be an enthusiastic supporter of going forwards).

Unfortunately both (1) and (2) currently not allowed.

There's also (3) drivers who dither about stopping on yellow, leave it too late and plough through getting honked by the next stage of traffic, if they don't hit any trusting crossing users, (4) drivers who get bored waiting and suddenly launch at speed in an attempt to nip through in the "intergreen" part between two stages, (5) drivers too incompetent to apply the hand brake or put feet down, who roll across the line and block any near side crossing, intimidating crossing users, (6) drivers who seem unaware that they should stop at the line and instead stop level with the first red light, again intimidating crossing users.

Which would you allow?

I'd fine them all, but provide give-way cycle bypasses of most lights.

[mjr]

As I've already commented elsewhere recently, I spent a few days in Copenhagen a couple weeks ago and was impressed by the organisation of major routes through the city.
In summary, there are cycle paths, often one per direction, co-ordinated crossings and very clear space demarkation. Guess what? Everybody respects the crossing controls, nobody runs lights or jumps the gun and as a consequence, everybody is calm, cheerful and safe.

Danish lights are saner than ours. Nowhere there are you expected to stop at a red light, make a u turn, wait at another red light and make the opposite u turn simply to continue straight ahead. If a Danish cycleway changes its side of the road, there's one simple lit crossing at worst, but often it's a diagonal across the road with give way lines for drivers, or a bridge over faster busy roads.

[Barrowman]

I did witness Police pulling cyclists who had jumped the red lights over in London a couple of years ago ( one officer observing , describing offender on radio ,second officer stopping
( I withdrew to a distance to get the whole picture )
Not sure if it was a fine or words of advice .
Officers both on Cycles but didn't see them give chase to anyone .

[mattsccm]

No ifs or buts. If the law says don't cross on a red then don't. Making daft excuses that suit your own specific needs lumps you in with the drivers of motorised vehicles.
Possibly the law may not suit some people but as it stands, breaking it is wrong and those doing it are also condoning others doing it.
Not really enough details in the OP but if those cyclists getting falshed are actually crossing a red as opposed to just being slower than the lights anticipate(totally different issue) then I hope that they do get nailed.

[axel_knutt]

the "Idaho Stop" I just discovered and which I am intending to be an enthusiastic supporter of going forwards

I've been arguing that it should apply to all traffic, not just cycles,

Give way: You don't have to stop, but one direction can hog the junction whilst others don't get a look-in.
Lights: Everyone gets a turn, with no junction hogging, but you waste time stopping for nothing.

If you change the status of a red light from stop to give way you fix both problems, and get the best of both worlds.

[[XAP]Bob]

Or the worst of both.

[mjr]

If you change the status of a red light from stop to give way you fix both problems, and get the best of both worlds.

And no one can ever cross a road safely with motorists shown a red light?

[thirdcrank]

the "Idaho Stop" I just discovered and which I am intending to be an enthusiastic supporter of going forwards

I've been arguing that it should apply to all traffic, not just cycles,

Give way: You don't have to stop, but one direction can hog the junction whilst others don't get a look-in.
Lights: Everyone gets a turn, with no junction hogging, but you waste time stopping for nothing.

If you change the status of a red light from stop to give way you fix both problems, and get the best of both worlds.

If I have understood this correctly, a partial version of it was tried in France and possibly elsewhere long ago but I think it was scrapped.

During quiet periods eg during the night, traffic lights were switched to IIRC a mode which meant all the approaching road users faced "flashing amber." I think it only "worked" to the extent that in those days traffic was considerably lighter so the statistical risk of a crash was smaller no matter how people behaved.