I've just had two weeks in Holland!

[Biscuit]

A few thoughts.

I'd only been to Amsterdam for a long weekend prior to this recent Dutch foray. That had given me a taster for the cycling culture (as well as other aspects of Dutch life) but this time I stayed nr Rijnsburg just outside Leiden just in off the coast from Katwijk and Nordwijk (sort of between Rotterdam and Amsterdam - geographically).

I took my ICE Qnt while wife and son took generic 'off road' and BMX respectively. I cannot believe how fantastic it was to get about by bike - I didnt touch the car for two weeks (except to get me to two skate tour locations).

If you havent been to Holland and ridden on a bike, go now, go soon and then feel the pain on returning to the UK and realising how terribly wrong we have got it! Despite that you will never regret it (probably .

My son ended up with a 'Dutch' bike for hire altho' the BMX was sufficient to get to Katwijk and Nordwijk and which he enjoyed enough. However, my son was in raptures over one Dutch style of bike (upright, back pedal brake backed up with rear rim brake) and it has expanded his horizons on what bikes are and can be.

A few positives, I'm convinced the Dutch infrastructure is the way to go, cars giving way - cycle 'paths' that go where the roads go and where you want to. Cycle paths that would be the envy of our so called roads for smoothness. Both separation and integration of cars and cycles, cars 'funneled' out of the way. Cars giving way on the narrow 'polders' (both to cyclists and skaters). Both sexes looking elegant on cycles going out for an eve' instead of jumping in the car. Sufficient cycle parking. Friends giving others a lift on the luggage rack - often side saddle). No or very few second glances at the trike (its considered normal in Holland I feel). Cyclist operated traffic lights, incredibly friendly people and cycling culture and more.

A few negatives, two weeks not enough, some (tiny percentage) hatchback/GTi culture amongst the younger drivers, a few impatient drivers, one 'white van man', only one recumbent spotted, some cycle specific surfaces were of the block set type and were in need of maintenance (bit uneven) and some main roads crossed by cycle paths need the vegetation in the middle bit trimming as a recumbent trike is at a disadvantage.

I cannot wait to go back and sample some more elsewhere in Holland. I fancy a Hull to Harwich or VV and 'North to South' Holland riding thro the sand dunes (on metalled cycle path!) and various towns on the coast joined up with two ferries.

I wish I was more eloquent to get across what an effect the past two weeks has had on me (a committed cyclist and trikey) and on my wife ( a reluctant cyclist who bought a shopping basket for her bike to use at home :-0).

i need to have a lie down now as I am cycling to work tomorrow............ oh god no............

[Wildduck]

Great to hear you had such a great time. I really don't know where this county took a wrong turn and got it so wrong!

But the most important question, please tell me this has convinced you to hold onto your inky blue QNT (he/she is a very close relation of Quackers!).

[Biscuit]

Twas but a minor ill advised wander from the path of three 'wheeledness' I've just read AlanD's post about his trip to the Cote D'Azure over on 'on the road'........ oh well.

[Wildduck]

Most excellent!

A true believer!

[Spider]

Agree with your happy sentiments entirely - I did the CTC Tour of Holland last September, and it was great, both the cycling and the tour. Can't wait to go back and use the maps I didn't use (followed someone with Sat Nav).

Great signage and routes as soon as you get off from Harwich - Hook of Holland. I want to go across the massive bit that traverses the sea up on the north west coast. Can't remember the name but a lot of cyclists talk about it I think. Love riding around the Vondelpark too.

[peter236uk]

Holland sounds I found cycling in France the same really odd when cars wait to get past you I kept looking behind at one point thinking why has he not ovetaking.
Unlike here where they have to get past you at all costs !! coppenhagen is pretty much the same with bike culture.

[Tony]

As written elsewhere, I have also been round that way on tour. There are many behts about, but more to the North. The typical Dutch modification is tri-bars, but set pointing almost vertically upwards.
A LOT of the urban cycle paths are blocks, and they have a nasty habit of indicating an approaching hazard by lining the blocks up so that there are continuous seams. This is potentially lethal oin a bike, and their idea of a "hazard" is any bend.
I liked the riding, but I also found examples of the donside, such as road bans on bikes resulting either in shouted abuse from the drivers or, in one memorable case, a 5km detour to travel 200 metres.
The more bikes are separated, the more drivers will EXPECT them not to be on the road.

[Biscuit]

Tony,

Separation and/or integration. I guess you can argue both ways. Cant see the point of allowing cycles on the motorway for instance (unless there were no cars, trucks ect). They are made for lots of people rushing (usually haha!) i the same direction if I dont want to rush the a road made for me (and other cyclists) works a plan,, for me. I take your point tho' but as the saying goes 'we are were we are' I do enjoy a bit of separation at times........ but there will never be a plan to suit all....

Yeh there were down sides but they were tiny compared to Blighty. Integration will only happen when education and being 'taught to drive' occur + life imprisonment for knocking into a cyclist Oh yes and pedestrians....... however, I suppose thats for another thread

Not convinced about the 'blocks' and orientation being potentially lethal (def' for an inline skater - made me focus I'll give you that)

Oh give me car drivers who are considerate to HPVs (in the main) my journey to work the last few days has just been peppered with the usual stuff....... anyway....

As for the bit up North Spider -I too would like to do that route...... between the Wadenzee and the Ijsslemeer? Or the N302 between Enkhuizen and Lelystad?

[nigel_s]

... I really don't know where this county took a wrong turn and got it so wrong!

...

Perhaps it's because the Netherlands only had a relatively small car manufacturing industry, and Denmark none at all, so the politicians and planners weren't bought off by corporate bribes as obviously happened in UK.

Democracy? Don't believe a word of it. Money rules.

[Spider]

Tony,

As for the bit up North Spider -I too would like to do that route...... between the Wadenzee and the Ijsslemeer? Or the N302 between Enkhuizen and Lelystad?

Both of those bits look great, think that's what I have heard about. Thinking about a tour early next year so will keep you posted.............

[CJ]

A LOT of the urban cycle paths are blocks, and they have a nasty habit of indicating an approaching hazard by lining the blocks up so that there are continuous seams. This is potentially lethal on a bike, and their idea of a "hazard" is any bend.

I think you'll find that's the only practicable way to lay that type of paving block on a curve!

[Biscuit]

Tony - look forward to it.

[Tony]

Oh, I rode on all sorts of surfaces on that trip, and the worst were in Germany (deep, soft sand) and Denmark (gravel over deep, soft sand). What I started doing in Holland to avoid the cracks grabbing at my tyres was to ride at an angle across each section.

The bit I think you're on about, Spider, is the Afsluitsdijk, which is 32km long and whose character depends on wind direction. It was a nice ride for me, with a fully separated and wide cycleway and, IIRC, three service-stations where you can get a coffee or a cold drink.