Car drivers afraid of cyclists

[Cugel]

Just face the truth, there are cycling groups with a bunch of tawts among them. I've encountered them on a family bike ride before now. Complete in club Jersey too! Idiots in cars, on bikes and on foot exist. It's worse when there's packs of them. Not everyone likes to hear that or accepts it. A blind spot perhaps.

Having been what you will probably deem "a culprit" riding in a club group of cyclists I have the opportunity to examine these experiences whilst trying on your perspective glasses. Alas, they seem to have some Big Blinkers on so nothing is any clearer. (More obscure, in fact).

There are groups of cyclists who go about foolishly, aggressively and often illegally. There's a pretend cycling club south of Lancaster who ride about as a mob of hoolies often three or four abreast and keen to breast-up to any other road user, from pedestrians to lorry drivers. They do exude a large cloud of posturing aggression, which seems to be a major objective of their rides along with the "lookitme, with all the gear (and no idea)".

More traditional cycling clubs, one of which I was a long tern member of, are far more disciplined on the road and ride with care, consideration and legally.

In short, you are wrong to tar all cyclists riding in groups with your big tar brush and should perhaps consider less of the stereotyping.

Cugel

[Nearholmer]

The item is very specific about the perceived threat.

aggressive cyclists (65 per cent) are a threat to their personal safety

Not a threat of litigation, or the like, but a threat to personal safety.

I’m sure that for some (but equally sure far fewer that 65% of all drivers) there is such a perception. The bit I genuinely don’t understand is why.

When driving, I’ve been irritated by some people on bikes (without lights, in the dark, zooming across in front of me), and frightened that some (wobbling about, cycling “madly”, taking junctions without looking about, etc) were about to sacrifice themselves in front of me, but threatening to my personal safety? No.

On shared paths, once in a blue moon I have felt threatened by people on bikes (teenage boys specifically) in a safety sense when walking, because of their propensity to tear about and approach from the rear with no warning.

Every person who said they felt threatened should have been asked why and how …. Because we all need to understand what underlies this.

[mattheus]

Just face the truth,

Are you Jack Nicholson?

[mattheus]

The item is very specific about the perceived threat.

aggressive cyclists (65 per cent) are a threat to their personal safety

Not a threat of litigation, or the like, but a threat to personal safety.

Every person who said they felt threatened should have been asked why and how …. Because we all need to understand what underlies this.

Yes, it seemed very specific to me. But do we really want to know the reasons from these people? I fear it could be quite frustrating, as the answer will often be like this:

Knock one off and, regardless of actual fault, the motorist will be deemed as the guilty party.

I have listened! I have tried to understand other views! And this is where it got me ...

[reohn2]

I drive a car in excess of 12,000miles a year and have never once ever felt threatened by a cyclist in any way.
I used to ride a bicycle 7 to 8,000miles a year and have lost count of the number of times I've been threatened by car drivers,including threats of physical violence and in one case needing to defend myself by hitting my assailant with my bike,indeed it's one of the main reasons I stopped riding on the road unless absolutely necessary.

How anyone on a bicycle can pose any threat to someone in a car is beyond me

[Nearholmer]

But do we really want to know the reasons from these people?

I certainly do, partly because if it’s a miss-perception, which surely it must be in most cases, then the only way to counter it is to start by understanding it’s root causes, and partly because I’m simply curious about what goes on inside other people’s heads.

One thing I suspect is that people find witnessing vulnerability stressful, and translate that into fear. It’s the sort of thing that causes some motorists to get angry when they see a cyclist with no helmet, or cycling dangerously, neither of which rationally poses any threat to the motorist, but both of which provoke stress-anger.

Afraid of = afraid for??

[mattheus]

But do we really want to know the reasons from these people?

I certainly do, partly because if it’s a miss-perception, which surely it must be in most cases, then the only way to counter it is to start by understanding it’s root causes, and partly because I’m simply curious about what goes on inside other people’s heads.

One thing I suspect is that people find witnessing vulnerability stressful, and translate that into fear. It’s the sort of thing that causes some motorists to get angry when they see a cyclist with no helmet, or cycling dangerously, neither of which rationally poses any threat to the motorist, but both of which provoke stress-anger.

Afraid of = afraid for??

One fact to bear in mind; over millenia, humans have feared others simply because they had different colour skin.

[Carlton green]

I drive a car in excess of 12,000miles a year and have never once ever felt threatened by a cyclist in any way.
I used to ride a bicycle 7 to 8,000miles a year and have lost count of the number of times I've been threatened by car drivers,including threats of physical violence and in one case needing to defend myself by hitting my assailant with my bike,indeed it's one of the main reasons I stopped riding on the road unless absolutely necessary.

How anyone on a bicycle can pose any threat to someone in a car is beyond me

An interesting nuance and nuance is I think particularly important in this discussion.

There are lots of places where I wouldn’t ride my bike because whilst not threatened by each individual driver I do feel at risk and therefore threatened. As a driver I occasionally feel at risk, my well-being threatened, by the actions of some cyclists - or should that be person on a bike - who behave badly. A rouge cyclist involving a driver in an accident would give them all types of hassle and be a threat to their well-being, or potentially worse if a complete idiot on bike. So when we talk about threat it’s important to try to define in what forms the threat exists (say hassle, damage to vehicle, accidental damage to a person, assault, court action) or is feared to exist in.

As individuals we’ve things in common and things in which we’re very different. As I said in an earlier post it’s important to try to see the other person’s perspective, some folk can do that or attempt to do that and others can’t or won’t.

[mattheus]

I drive a car in excess of 12,000miles a year and have never once ever felt threatened by a cyclist in any way.
I used to ride a bicycle 7 to 8,000miles a year and have lost count of the number of times I've been threatened by car drivers,including threats of physical violence and in one case needing to defend myself by hitting my assailant with my bike,indeed it's one of the main reasons I stopped riding on the road unless absolutely necessary.

How anyone on a bicycle can pose any threat to someone in a car is beyond me

An interesting nuance and nuance is I think particularly important in this discussion.

There are lots of places where I wouldn’t ride my bike because whilst not threatened by each individual driver I do feel at risk and therefore threatened. As a driver I occasionally feel at risk, my well-being threatened, by the actions of some cyclists - or should that be person on a bike - who behave badly. A rouge cyclist involving a driver in an accident would give them all types of hassle and be a threat to their well-being, or potentially worse if a complete idiot on bike. So when we talk about threat it’s important to try to define in what forms the threat exists (say hassle, damage to vehicle, accidental damage to a person, assault, court action) or is feared to exist in.

As individuals we’ve things in common and things in which we’re very different. As I said in an earlier post it’s important to try to see the other person’s perspective, some folk can do that or attempt to do that and others can’t or won’t.

So this comes down to you using "risk" and "threat" pretty much interchangeably. You are not in line with legislation, government guidance, or most English speakers, and seem to be twisting language to suit some strange end.

I might say there is a risk of me tripping over a step in the dark - i would never say I felt threatened by it
Whereas you feel threatened by a pothole that damages your car.

[Jdsk]

Sounds as if this is related to the survey by IAM Roadsmart:
https://www.iamroadsmart.com/media-poli ... eroadusers

I've written to ask if any details are available.

No response yet.

The survey was carried out by "Cint" and is part of the IAMSmart 2023 annual report.

I've written to FullFact, More or Less, and Cycling UK.

Jonathan

[mattheus]

What defines "danger"?

Having the car paintwork scratched probably. There's no shortage of motorists on twitter who draw some sort of equivalence between having your car scratched and having your kidneys wrapped around a prop shaft.

ha-ha. Very often true!

I like Richard Dawkins' quote:
"Show me a Cultural Relativist at 30,000 feet and I'll show you a hypocrite. The reason the plane flies is that a lot of classically trained scientists and engineers got their sums right"

I like that, thanks. Not so relevant to this thread, but very useful when nutters are arguing with "so-called experts" about things like va**ines and Cl***te Ch***e.

[mattheus]

Sounds as if this is related to the survey by IAM Roadsmart:
https://www.iamroadsmart.com/media-poli ... eroadusers

I've written to ask if any details are available.

No response yet.

The survey was carried out by "Cint" and is part of the IAMSmart 2023 annual report.

I've written to FullFact, More or Less, and Cycling UK.

Jonathan

Blimey. Top work

[Cugel]

I drive a car in excess of 12,000miles a year and have never once ever felt threatened by a cyclist in any way.
I used to ride a bicycle 7 to 8,000miles a year and have lost count of the number of times I've been threatened by car drivers,including threats of physical violence and in one case needing to defend myself by hitting my assailant with my bike,indeed it's one of the main reasons I stopped riding on the road unless absolutely necessary.

How anyone on a bicycle can pose any threat to someone in a car is beyond me

The method of conjuring fear of cyclist by the car-borne involves the injection through their eyes (those of the car-borne) large gushes of hysterical text-meme painting the two-wheelers as bogey-things, insane wing mirror assaulters and devils in disguise intent on going through red lights in order to collide with innocent motorists who need to be on their phone to tell someone what happened in last night's flaccid soap opera so didn't notice the devil-cyclist coming for 'em.

The survey mentioned in the post is an example of one mass-media technique for creating and damning such out groups. They have others.

It's a conspiracy, you see. No, not of the cyclists to induce fear and loathing in motorists but of the mass media to induce not just fear and loathing of the cyclists but of many other out-groups, forming a fine distraction from the actual bogeys in Parliament, Big Business and, of course, the mass media itself. The fear and loathing is, inevitably, followed by a growing degree of viscious aggression. "Them cyclists deserve being run over".

The fear-ridden motorists should just be grateful that the vilified out groups don't become far more aggressive in face of their unjustified bogey status. It's a sad thing that deeming an out group evil because it does a list of bad things that it doesn't actually do gradually increases the inclination of the out group to live up to its poor reputation.

Cyclists with machine guns mounted on their handlebars and a pannier full of grenades! Happily, not yet. But when motorists are armed with a two ton blunt instrument, what should a cyclist in their cross-hairs do? There are no handy rozzers to call upon. The camera is often used - a very kind weapon in the face of a two ton cudgel aimed by a media-excited psychopath.

Cugel

[mattheus]

I drive a car in excess of 12,000miles a year and have never once ever felt threatened by a cyclist in any way.
I used to ride a bicycle 7 to 8,000miles a year and have lost count of the number of times I've been threatened by car drivers,including threats of physical violence and in one case needing to defend myself by hitting my assailant with my bike,indeed it's one of the main reasons I stopped riding on the road unless absolutely necessary.

How anyone on a bicycle can pose any threat to someone in a car is beyond me

That seems so reasonable ...

... and according to several people on this forum (even on this thread) the solution is that we ALL need to SHARE the road nicely. Drivers AND cyclists. Yup, we're all equally to blame for the death, injury and fear.

[Cowsham]

There's only one way to find out