Where is the North - South line in England?

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pwa
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by pwa »

Lance Dopestrong wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 5:41pm
Tangled Metal wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 4:41pm Decades ago I got on a train at Leeds to go to an institute do got student members in London. I remember being excited at the idea of a trip to London. As the train went south i got this strong feeling that I was going from an area with lots of countryside to an area without much at all. I started to hate my journey. The further I got on my way to London the more I had of the idea that I couldn't live down south and especially south east.
Beautifully put. I feel exactly the same way and wouldn't want to be a mile further south than I am now because of this. I feel sorry for my descendents a generation or two hence when there is no countryside left.
My feeling, every time I visit London, is that it is too noisy, too busy and too polluted for my tastes. I hate it and can't wait to escape. I like my countryside to be no more than a ten minute walk away. And Hampstead Heath doesn't count as countryside. :lol: But other people like being in a busy metropolis and wouldn't like living out in the sticks like me. Horses for courses.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I can walk to the village train station, over the footbridge and onto the estuary salt Marsh embankment in a couple of minutes. I can get to the tidal estuary silty beach within 5 minutes. 20 minutes I'm on top of a hill overlooking the estuary and inland. All by walking.

By train I can be at an RSPB reserve in 15 minutes or walking on a promenade in South Cumbria. Ambleside in 45 minutes, Keswick in a hour but by van in those two places. Dumfries in 2 to 3 hours by van.

On the other hand, lancaster to London by train in less than 3ish hours that's 208 miles direct., but lancaster to Hull in 4 hours with 3 trains and 102 miles. Now that's why we need devolution for the North to get away from London centric investment on infrastructure with only the breadcrumbs being given to the north but only a few places. I think to level up there should be a ban on infrastructure building such at new roads and trains in the south east until the North has caught up in the east west travel. Plus other things. Or at least matching London and south east over the last 10 years before new build down there. I'm totally negative about how the UK is divided so drastically by poor, modern transportation.
Pebble
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Pebble »

Tangled Metal wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 11:29pm I can walk to the village train station, over the footbridge and onto the estuary salt Marsh embankment in a couple of minutes. I can get to the tidal estuary silty beach within 5 minutes. 20 minutes I'm on top of a hill overlooking the estuary and inland. All by walking.

By train I can be at an RSPB reserve in 15 minutes or walking on a promenade in South Cumbria. Ambleside in 45 minutes, Keswick in a hour but by van in those two places. Dumfries in 2 to 3 hours by van.

On the other hand, lancaster to London by train in less than 3ish hours that's 208 miles direct., but lancaster to Hull in 4 hours with 3 trains and 102 miles. Now that's why we need devolution for the North to get away from London centric investment on infrastructure with only the breadcrumbs being given to the north but only a few places. I think to level up there should be a ban on infrastructure building such at new roads and trains in the south east until the North has caught up in the east west travel. Plus other things. Or at least matching London and south east over the last 10 years before new build down there. I'm totally negative about how the UK is divided so drastically by poor, modern transportation.
102 miles in 4 hours av 25½mph. A big westerly and an extra large bowl of porridge before setting off, I'm sure some could beat the train on the bike - London may be quicker, but why would anyone want to go there? least Hull has the fishing heritage centre, and thats worth a visit.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Hull, the city that for several years on a run was the most depressed or depressing city according to research. A mix of housing, jobs, and other factors taken into account I think. Not just worst city but most depressing to be in. But how on earth did London not get that?

If the pennines was the barrier between East and west London there would be a tunnel through them to half the journey time by now!
pete75
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by pete75 »

Paulatic wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 10:30am
Nearholmer wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 9:24am
It’s akin to contending that Melvyn Bragg is the archetypal horny-handed son of toil because he has a northern accent.
It might be northern but it’s certainly posh northern. :D A lad from Carlisle 'eh' .
Ain't he from Wigton?
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Paulatic
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Paulatic »

pete75 wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 7:25pm
Paulatic wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 10:30am
Nearholmer wrote: 8 Mar 2023, 9:24am
It’s akin to contending that Melvyn Bragg is the archetypal horny-handed son of toil because he has a northern accent.
It might be northern but it’s certainly posh northern. :D A lad from Carlisle 'eh' .
Ain't he from Wigton?
His Wiki says born in Carlisle raised in Wigton. There’s even more 'eh' when you get to Wigton and don’t get em started on those Jocks. :D
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pete75
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by pete75 »

Pebble wrote: 9 Mar 2023, 12:21am [
102 miles in 4 hours av 25½mph. A big westerly and an extra large bowl of porridge before setting off, I'm sure some could beat the train on the bike - London may be quicker, but why would anyone want to go there? least Hull has the fishing heritage centre, and thats worth a visit.
Not really. It's just a former shop with a not very large display. The better fishing heritage centre is in Grimsby with large displays like fifties Grimsby housing, different bits of the trawler with authentic smells and even a representation of a trawler deck in Artic waters, complete with blasting cold air. There's also the last of the well known "cat boats", the Ross Tiger, with guided tours by ex-trawlermen.
https://www.fishingheritage.com/about-gfhc/
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by pete75 »

Tangled Metal wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 4:31pm If you did include Scotland then you could call Scotland England border as the North South line. However the discussion in the media was only discussing England. Not very inclusive I know but my recollection of the nations was always that each had it's own regional prejudices without trying to tag onto the English ones. 😆

I have lived most of my life in West Lancashire, East Lancashire then North Lancashire. All of those would count as Northern to be but only one was North of the Lancaster line someone posted.

I used to think that in the dim and distant past south was where the silly house prices were. The North had proper valued housing stock. Now that doesn't work unless you think all cities are southern and all smaller towns and rural are northern North of Cheshire.

Lancashire, Yorkshire Cumbria and Northumbria are probably Northern, as in county palatine Lancashire which includes furness, Liverpool and Manchester.

PS my autocorrect makes my typed name for Manchester more PC by filling in the missing letters. I've never saved the full name so how is it doing it? Why? Am I being censored by my phone?
In the mid nineties I was on a week's course near Manchester staying in a hotel called Mottram Hall. The surrounding area looked very plush and housing expensive. The course was in Alderley Edge where housing seemed to be London suburban prices.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Pebble
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Pebble »

pete75 wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 7:39pm
Pebble wrote: 9 Mar 2023, 12:21am [
102 miles in 4 hours av 25½mph. A big westerly and an extra large bowl of porridge before setting off, I'm sure some could beat the train on the bike - London may be quicker, but why would anyone want to go there? least Hull has the fishing heritage centre, and thats worth a visit.
Not really. It's just a former shop with a not very large display. The better fishing heritage centre is in Grimsby with large displays like fifties Grimsby housing, different bits of the trawler with authentic smells and even a representation of a trawler deck in Artic waters, complete with blasting cold air. There's also the last of the well known "cat boats", the Ross Tiger, with guided tours by ex-trawlermen.
https://www.fishingheritage.com/about-gfhc/
ah ha - your're right it is Grimsby, thats where we went to the fishing museum place, not hull. I have been to hull many times too, but indeed it was Grimsby I was thinking of

but how can anyone concentrate on anything anymore when we have the Gary linekar Crises, thats the headlines on News24 - THE GARY LINEKAR CRISES - good god the worlds went mad.
drossall
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by drossall »

pete75 wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 7:52pmIn the mid nineties I was on a week's course near Manchester staying in a hotel called Mottram Hall. The surrounding area looked very plush and housing expensive. The course was in Alderley Edge where housing seemed to be London suburban prices.
I was a teenager, and started my cycling "career", in that area. Manchester United footballers live, or used to live, in Alderley Edge. Some I think in Prestbury, which is even posher. The local radio once declared that the yellow lines in Wilmslow are done in gold paint.

We lived just a little further in towards Manchester, but my brother delivered George Best's papers at one time.
Jdsk
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Jdsk »

"The Greggs-Pret Index: a Machine Learning analysis of consumer habits as a metric for the socio-economic North-South divide in England":
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... in_England

Jonathan
CliveyT
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by CliveyT »

rjb wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 4:15pm I've gone from pasties to cows and now live in cider land. I've always thought of up North to be beyond Bristol. :lol:
Bristol, that's in the part marked 'here be dragons' on my map. I always thought Exeter was sufficiently Northern to be considered strange. They have a motorway and everything :shock:
Mike Sales
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Mike Sales »

The line has now been established scientifically!
The precise location of the north-south of England divide is a fraught question that has been debated for centuries, drawing on factors ranging from economic prosperity and political views to the pronunciation of the word “scone”. Now, scientists have entered the fray, proposing an objective, machine learning-based analysis of the distribution of Pret a Manger and Greggs shops across England.

The AI-based approach places the critical dividing line at which avocado wraps give way to sausage rolls close to the M1 Watford Gap services and concludes that Birmingham, Coventry and Leicester, which often fall into a disputed grey area, should be considered “northern”.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... scientists
The Greggs-Pret Index: a Machine Learning analysis of consumer habits as a metric for the socio-economic North-South divide in England
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... in_England
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by peetee »

CliveyT wrote: 7 Jun 2023, 3:28pm
rjb wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 4:15pm I've gone from pasties to cows and now live in cider land. I've always thought of up North to be beyond Bristol. :lol:
Bristol, that's in the part marked 'here be dragons' on my map. I always thought Exeter was sufficiently Northern to be considered strange. They have a motorway and everything :shock:
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Aah, but when looking for lunch at my nearby town of kendal we often choose Baba Ganoush for food. Either kanteen or cafe. By my reckoning that makes it more southern than pret a manger! Very posh southerner eating establishment. So you can't rely on pret vs greggs. It's not an outlier. Cumbria has possibly the most Michelin stars outside of London too. Food quality or poshness isn't a reliable metric.

Nope! I think down to earth honesty of the locals is a good measure along with the friendly nature is better imho. I had a lot of family in Southampton area and it amazed me how nobody acknowledged a quick hello as my path crossed the locals. I don't think I've ever struck up a conversation with a stranger down south or off I have I find out they're northerners on holiday or visiting someone! :D
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