Where is the North - South line in England?

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Tangled Metal
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Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Tangled Metal »

This has been in a few media outlets of late so I thought I'd ask a collection of touring cyclists what their view is?

Is it Blackpool to North of the Humber through Leeds? Or is it just south of Manchester and Liverpool?

Apparently someone's gone viral marking it as through Leeds with Midlands then the South being south of Birmingham.

My view is Midlands is Birmingham and the bit either side like Shropshire, Derbyshire to the North of it. But just south of Manchester is North. The Blackpool to humber line goes through not far from Dunsop Bridge the geographical centre of the whole of mainland great Britain. Which means it's North of the top third line surely? Mustn't be the north's southern boundary line.

What's your view on this? It's not important just a bit of fun for a mid Tuesday quiet patch.

BTW I'm Cumbria now so northern. At uni when we all did anything competitive we split into North vs South. Coming from Blackburn but being born and living for first years I Somerset I switched to make the sides fair. So I don't actually think it matters. I don't identify as northern, midlander or Southern anyway. Just fun to see what others think. Please in a friendly way.
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Cugel
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Cugel »

What are the criteria, parameters, features, attributes or other defining aspects we are using to differentiate north & south .... and just England is it? A simple north/south divide would be a-one o' them geographical lines you mentioned, which could be determined by making the land area the same either side, or finding the mid-point from the most southern south coast spot to most northern border spot. or .......

But if the division is supposedly one based on cultural attributes, behaviours, beliefs or even accents...... . Well, it gets complicated then, man. It's even worse if you introduce "the midlands" and also something about east-west!

Being a Geordie by birth, I regard anywhere south of Whitburn on the east coast and Barrow on the west coast as pretty southern. Well, they're not like us proper folk from Shields are they!? And as for them north of Blyth or Carlisle - well! They're all bagpipes and sheep-pinchin'.

I always found most places south of Sheffield like a foreign country, with habits strange and mysterious. Also, they speak far too slowly and about things that seem - peculiar.

And what are "The Home Counties"? Does this make the rest of Blighty somehow foreign; or just second (or third) rate in the eyes of those poor souls confined to what might otherwise be called Little England?

Cugel, currently infesting West Wales, which is definitely foreign but in a generally welcoming fashion.
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mattheus
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by mattheus »

For me, the main distinction is between where we live and
the provinces.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by al_yrpal »

I somehow remember a line from the Severn to the Wash?

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Nearholmer
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Nearholmer »

It depends where your personal grid-reference is set. I grew up in rural Sussex, and despite having now lived twice as long here as there, that is my reference point, so “north” starts somewhere around Wembley, where road signs definitely start saying “The North”, and is well entrenched by Northampton, which sounds northern, and has solidly industrial Victorian architecture.

But, I don’t expect anyone else to take that seriously, which is a good job, because they don’t.

OTH “professional northerners”, people who bang on about how all southerners are a bunch of softies, and how everyone south of where they live spends their time frolicking about in idle luxury, while they work their fingers to the bone, seem to come mostly from Yorkshire, so maybe that’s the epicentre, if not the start, of the The North.

Geologically, I think the division between sedimentary and igneous rock is generally taken as the Exe-Tees line.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 7 Mar 2023, 3:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boring_Username
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Boring_Username »

Nearholmer wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 3:19pm It depends where your personal grid-reference is set.
It does indeed. Here in the West Country, we have our own map:

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Lance Dopestrong »

The location of the divide varies depending on who is answering the question and the metric by which it is being measured.

I'm a Scotsman living England and I don't know where the divide is. I guess my position on the divide is down to my own efforts and talents rather than any arbitrary geographical spot, because wherever I live I always seem to find myself on the comfortable side of it.

I do chuckle at the Edinburgh elite banging on about remote Westmisnter rule when my old place in Scalloway was pretty much as far from Edinburgh as Edinburgh is from London, so I guess if pressed I would place the divide somewhere the Grampian region, not that life has really been any different for me on either side of it beyond accents and traffic density.
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Nearholmer
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Nearholmer »

Here in the West Country, we have our own map
Interesting that the map has a “dangerously close to France” bit, because when I was growing up France definitely was closer, and felt a great deal closer, than “Up North”. We went to Northern France, and the old houses, farms, trees, etc looked exactly like the ones at home, and we all knew that that Norman bloke built all the castles round our way, and that our family name traced direct to someone who came across with him in an open boat, and had fought uphill against The Home Secretary at Senlac Field.

“Up North” OTH was a long way away, possibly as far as Egypt, given that our father told tales of having been to both during the war; very definitely foreign.
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Paulatic »

I’ve always defined the North as a line from Lancaster to York. Above that is my north and Ive cycled almost every square of it. Below that line is somewhere to visit but hurry back home from. :D
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by mjr »

al_yrpal wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 2:59pm I somehow remember a line from the Severn to the Wash?
That would depend where on the Severn. Bristol would be silly, but Fitz in Shropshire will surprise some people.

Some say Severn estuary to the Wash is the northernmost edge of "the south“ while the Mersey estuary to the Wash in the southernmost edge of "t'north". Between the two is Midlands.
Last edited by mjr on 7 Mar 2023, 3:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Lance Dopestrong »

Nearholmer wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 3:40pm
Here in the West Country, we have our own map
Interesting that the map has a “dangerously close to France” bit, because when I was growing up France definitely was closer, and felt a great deal closer, than “Up North”. We went to Northern France, and the old houses, farms, trees, etc looked exactly like the ones at home, and we all knew that that Norman bloke built all the castles round our way, and that our family name traced direct to someone who came across with him in an open boat, and had fought uphill against The Home Secretary at Senlac Field.

“Up North” OTH was a long way away, possibly as far as Egypt, given that our father told tales of having been to both during the war; very definitely foreign.
We could do with a "like" button for this.

My Dad lives on the Kent Downs a few miles North of Kennington. Prior to retirement it was quicker for him to get to his company's office in Paris than it did to get to the offices in Canary Wharf, so France really is close in more ways than we realise.

You're right about the feel of Northern France. Once you're outside Calais you really could squint and believe you were back in Kent. The only real giveaway is the way they paint their largest pylons red and white for some reason.

Unlike you, although I'm Scottish born I'm actually descended from the steely-eyed Men of Kent, who refused to yield to the Normans and who harassed the Norman army all the way to London. Invicta!
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pwa
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by pwa »

Paulatic wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 3:47pm I’ve always defined the North as a line from Lancaster to York. Above that is my north and Ive cycled almost every square of it. Below that line is somewhere to visit but hurry back home from. :D
That excludes most of the traditional "mill towns" such as Bolton, Rochdale and Bradford, places that for many epitomise the urban North. Think Coronation Street, Bury black puddings and most of the Rugby League teams. And what about Blackpool? Northern, without a doubt, but south of your line! I can understand you wanting to stay rural for your leisure cycling, but you cannot deny the fact that these places are "northern", in the common sense of the word.

My own feeling is that northern accents can be found from Staffordshire up, on the west side, and from Nottingham up on the other side.
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

We have several, the most famous runs through greenwich...
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by Biospace »

pwa wrote: 7 Mar 2023, 3:58pm My own feeling is that northern accents can be found from Staffordshire up, on the west side, and from Nottingham up on the other side.
That's interesting, they sound anything but Northern to me! Part of Flavia Caesariensis.

800px-Roman_Britain_410.jpg

The reference to a line joining the Wash and Severn has the economical poorer Government Office Regions to its North, the wealthier ones to its South. The divide was seen to be reducing from the 1960s until the late 1990s, since when it has regressed, if you take the length of a healthy male life as the metric.
Last edited by Biospace on 7 Mar 2023, 4:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where is the North - South line in England?

Post by rjb »

I've gone from pasties to cows and now live in cider land. I've always thought of up North to be beyond Bristol. :lol:
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