Swytch - apparent tiny battery capacity?

[LittleGreyCat]

The rated range seems to be 15 km or 30 km.
That is roughly 10 miles or 20 miles.
This seems a lot less than yer average electric bike.

Is the assumption that the useful range will be a lot higher because of pedal assistance?

Also, as the batteries seem so light, carrying more than one battery could give you an extended range.
Does anyone do this?

[horizon]

AIUI you get a very light, carriable (as in, in your pocket) battery. You can get a larger version too. So, trip to work, charge up, trip home. Who needs 60 miles?

OR on that 60 mile trip, it gets you up a few hills and the rest of the time you don't have the weight. I think it makes sense.

[rjb]

If you recharge at work you will need a 2nd charger or carry one with you which negates the benefit of a smaller lighter battery.

[simonineaston]

My Brompton uses a motor / battery system from Nano. The batteries are from the Bosch 36v power tool range. I use the compact 4Ah variant. It weighs around 1.5 kg and gives me a typical range of 15 miles. In practice, the system has always worked well, giving me enough range to cycle local journies round Bristol. I've not run out of juice yet.
When I commuted to and fro' Yate, the battery lasted both ways, just. It recharged overnight.
Back during lockdown, I used to go out for 20 + mile rides in the countryside round Chipping Sodbury and I took the Brompton for a couple of those and it was clear that the battery was not up to the longer rides, however for local journies it's ideal.

[millimole]

The rated range seems to be 15 km or 30 km.
That is roughly 10 miles or 20 miles.
This seems a lot less than yer average electric bike.

Is the assumption that the useful range will be a lot higher because of pedal assistance?

Also, as the batteries seem so light, carrying more than one battery could give you an extended range.
Does anyone do this?

It seems like an extension of the range issue of electric cars where people look at the range needed for a theoretical journey.

On a bicycle are you buying a battery with a range of 60 miles for that once a year tour you may never take, or is the 60 mile range so that you are certain you don't run out of juice on your regular 30 mile ride?

Electric bikes do rely on muscle powered input and the style of riding, the terrain and temperature are all factors in making a decision in what's right for your situation.

[Cugel]

There is an equation between motor power, battery capacity, weight of the bike/rider, terrain traversed and average distance of one-journey trips (assuming the trip is between charging opportunities).

Some need only a lightweight, not-that-powerful bike and motor having a small and lightweight battery, with a city dweller in the flatlands who only goes 5 miles at most each way to shop, pub, local workplace or neighbours, perhaps needing the least "stuff" in the e-bike.

Some need a tough and relatively heavy bike for long tours, with a powerful motor to get the heavily-laden bike up steep and rough tracks as well as a big battery not just for the powerful motor but to enable longer trips between sparse charging opportunities.

Personally I have an e-bike that has a mid-power motor and mid-capacity battery because I want to have a relatively lightweight e-bike (15kg rather than 30kg) that's used primarily for fitness riding over very hilly routes between 30 - 90 kilometres. As its for fitness, I can do with less battery capacity (250WH rather than 500 or 750) as I expect to produce a lot of pedalling power myself.

In short, it's horses for courses.

Cugel

[saudidave]

The thinking behind the limited range is, I believe, that the vast majoirity of Brompton rides are short commutes and thus a 20 mile (30Km) battery is sufficient. I also have read several times that the Swytch converted Bromptons often achieve a lot more than that as the range stated is on the mid power, not eco setting.

I've got 2 of the latest Swytch kits, complete with the large (30Km) capacity batteries sitting unpacked in my garage and I can probably advise the range available in about 6 weeks time as I'm not standing in my freezing cold garage converting the two Bromptons we have till it gets warmer. I Bought the kits on a whim intending that it might encourage my wife to come out with me more often but also with the thought in mind that if I went out alone starting from anywhere having carried the Brompton in the car boot, that I could take the battery from her bike too & thus have a 60Km range whilst expanding my horizons. I also have a Raleigh Centros that has a realistic range of about 80 miles if I want a ride starting from home so I now have all bases covered.

[fivebikes]

We have a couple of Swytch converted Bromptons. Not the current super light battery versions but the second generation. They are the larger capacity, up to 50 km claimed. On rides, the power is used to climb otherwise difficult hills and perhaps a bit of a ‘get you home, lift. We have done several 50 km rides, in that way, and the battery still indicates about 25% remaining I guess. Swytch conversions aren’t intended to accommodate huge miles. Think about your intended use rather than theoretical maximum mileage.
We also have an ARCC converted Moulton TSR 27 that uses the same Bosch 36 v garden tool batteries that Simonineaston refers to. The 6ah battery copes with 25/30 miles and I keep a spare 4ah in the saddle bag if needed….plus I use them to power my garden mower too!
We don’t do many rides in excess of 30-40 miles so, combining low capacity batteries with a bit of leg work is a good solution.

[simonineaston]

plus I use them to power my garden mower too!

I did look at Bosch power tools after I started using the nano, but couldn't find any I needed!

[swscotland bentrider]

I’ve just converted a friends mtb to Swytch. She bought two of the lower capacity battery options. When I did the conversion I took the bike into the local forest to do a check ride. 6 kilometres and all the indicators on the battery still lit.
My own bike is a Mahle motored road bike. 250 watt hour battery. I got home after thirty miles with the battery showing green (50-75% charge left). So as others have said the biggest factor is the rider and his or her level of input.

[Bonzo Banana]

I'm sure Swytch have gone for the small battery capacity for their profit margin. The cells are a huge part of manufacturing a ebike kit so minimalising the number of cells means extra profit for them. You do see quite a few failed Swytch battery packs on ebay. I tend to look at s/hand ebike components quite a lot and surprised by the amount of Swytch components there as well as Brompton hub motors. Small capacity battery packs tend to die quicker as the individual cells are discharged at a higher rate. A cell that might last 1200 full capacity recharges under ideal conditions may only last 250 under the worst conditions i.e. a very high discharge rate.

These battery packs from aliexpress are used in a lot of low cost ebike projects. They are designed for e-scooters or e-boards or whatever they are called. They are probably the cheapest type of lithium ion battery pack you can buy and made in huge numbers. I guess around £30-50 for a 7Ah model which contains 20 cells and a BMS. It would contain 3500mAh cells if you get a pack from a genuine seller.

It's quite possible to buy all the parts you need for a ebike kit for less than £200 with greater battery capacity than a Swytch kit.

[Airsporter1st]

I have an Orbea Vibe with a theoretical range of 70+ miles, but find I use battery power for only 15% of the ride on average, which would extrapolate to a range of around 400+ miles - more than enough!

[Bonzo Banana]

I have an Orbea Vibe with a theoretical range of 70+ miles, but find I use battery power for only 15% of the ride on average, which would extrapolate to a range of around 400+ miles - more than enough!

Yes that is true of many ebikes, if you use it as a bailout option only for hills which you struggle with you can get a huge range. If you have regen on your ebike and again use the ebike only for the toughest hills but use regen going down hills and as much braking as possible you could in theory charge your ebike on a ride if you use the motor so sparingly.

[Al1969]

I’ve owned a Swytch for over 12 months now and can honestly say that their after sales assistance is absolutely RUBBISH. My motor developed a fault and responses to my emails have been monthly, unhelpful and frustrating.
It seems that they want you to keep buying components in the vain hope that the system will fix itself.

[Airsporter1st]

I have an Orbea Vibe with a theoretical range of 70+ miles, but find I use battery power for only 15% of the ride on average, which would extrapolate to a range of around 400+ miles - more than enough!

Yes that is true of many ebikes, if you use it as a bailout option only for hills which you struggle with you can get a huge range. If you have regen on your ebike and again use the ebike only for the toughest hills but use regen going down hills and as much braking as possible you could in theory charge your ebike on a ride if you use the motor so sparingly.

I’m not sure if the Vibe has regen - I don’t think so. However you are spot on regarding the usage pattern; I live at the top of a hill, so much of the first part of my usual ride is coasting downhill, then a significant bit
on the flat and use of assistance on the steeper bits going back home. The last hundred yards is known locally as ‘cardiac hill’.