An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

ossie wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 8:07pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:56am
ossie wrote: 10 Mar 2023, 8:09pm

I find travel broadens the mind. If you were to travel around the UK you wouldn't argue against the fact that the UK is quite overcrowded . In short public services, the NHS, schools, prisons, the environment, roads and railways simply cannot keep up.
You're quite right. I should go somewhere less populated and with less immigrants, like, perhaps the Netherlands in order to get better public services.

It's almost as though you simply want to blame immigrants for problems of our own making.
Its almost like you like to put words in peoples mouths. The point was is the UK overcrowded and you starting spouting nonsense about St Maarten and Rwanda. They have nothing to do with the UK.

I agree however the overcrowding is of our own making. A poster further up the thread trumped economy over environment. Successive Governments have been relying on cheap labour to boost our economy and our current situation is the result.
Putting words in people's mouths is bad eh?

St Maarten wasn't mentioned by me.

Address the beam, sir!

Rwanda has much do do with the UK: complaining that we are overcrowded whilst supporting outsourcing our refugees to a more crowded country is the most rank of hypocrisy.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Zulu Eleven wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 8:36pm
slowster wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 8:09pm. The attention being focused on him by the right and their expectation that he should observe purdah on political issues is in stark contrast to how other high profile BBC non-news presenters have been treated, e.g. Jeremy Clarkson calling Gordon Brown a 'one eyed scottish idiot'. I think most people are sufficiently intelligent to be able to distinguish between Lineker's role at the BBC as a sports presenter, and his personal opinions on political matters.
Strange. I’ve seen no end of left wing commentators calling for Clarkson to be sacked over a whole variety of public comments an almost monthly basis for the past twenty years, both while working for the BBC and otherwise. The particular example you give - the Gordon Brown comment - Clarkson was forced to apologise publicly by the then Director General, Mark Thomson. So yes, they are being treated exactly the same, difference is that Lineker has refused to apologise.
There's a big difference: Clarkson was criticised because his comments were offensive; Lineker's because they were political.
Zulu Eleven
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by Zulu Eleven »

slowster wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 8:58pm There is an important difference between right and left wing commentators in the media criticising people in the public eye versus government ministers and MPs calling for Lineker to be silenced.
Over sixty MP’s called for Clarkson to be sacked over his Markle comments. There has been no end of MP’s calling for him to be sacked over the years.
There are also important differences between calling the PM a 'one eyed scottish idiot' versus describing government actions as 'an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s'. As for Clarkson's apology, my impression is that was largely just a cynical ploy. He did not change his behaviour, and there were repeated controversies until he finally left the BBC, e.g. use of the term 'slope' in a very likely deliberately ambiguously racist context when recording in Vietnam and on another occasion physically assaulting a member of the production team. As for 'the difference is that Lineker has refused to apologise', I would question exactly what he should apologise for.
Ah, “freedom of speech as long as I support what you’re saying”, quelle surprise..
roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Zulu Eleven wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:20pm
Over sixty MP’s called for Clarkson to be sacked over his Markle comments. There has been no end of MP’s calling for him to be sacked over the years.
Whether right or wrong, using your public position to attack an individual is very different to expressing opposition to government policy.

Clarkson is a bully. Lineker is a dissenter. These are not the same.
slowster
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by slowster »

Zulu Eleven wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:20pm Over sixty MP’s called for Clarkson to be sacked over his Markle comments. There has been no end of MP’s calling for him to be sacked over the years.
There is a big difference between MPs jumping onto a bandwagon and calling for someone to be sacked, versus government ministers acting in what is almost certainly an orchestrated campaign to silence someone who works for the BBC as a sports presenter.

I do not care what Clarkson wrote about Meghan Markle. As long as it does not breach the law, e.g. incitement to violence, he can write whatever he likes and the Sun can publish whatever it likes. If people want to buy the Sun and read that, that is their choice.
Zulu Eleven wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:20pm
There are also important differences between calling the PM a 'one eyed scottish idiot' versus describing government actions as 'an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s'. As for Clarkson's apology, my impression is that was largely just a cynical ploy. He did not change his behaviour, and there were repeated controversies until he finally left the BBC, e.g. use of the term 'slope' in a very likely deliberately ambiguously racist context when recording in Vietnam and on another occasion physically assaulting a member of the production team. As for 'the difference is that Lineker has refused to apologise', I would question exactly what he should apologise for.
Ah, “freedom of speech as long as I support what you’re saying”, quelle surprise..
I largely don't care about what Clarkson or other controversial celebrities and media figures say. If people want to get worked up about Clarkson's latest deliberately controversial statement designed to get more publicity for him, more fool them. Likewise, if people want to buy the Sun or the Daily Mail, more fool them.

Braverman and co. care about what Lineker says because they are afraid that his statements will gain traction with people whose votes they want, and so they want him silenced. When government ministers are devoting this sort of effort to get the BBC to silence a sports presenter, you should be concerned.
ossie
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by ossie »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:10pm
St Maarten wasn't mentioned by me.

Address the beam, sir!

Rwanda has much do do with the UK: complaining that we are overcrowded whilst supporting outsourcing our refugees to a more crowded country is the most rank of hypocrisy.
Indeed it wasn't but you supplied a link with all 'dem little countries in so are guilty by association :wink:

I personally haven't supported outsourcing refugees to Rwanda, I also fail to see the issue with France or Germany as a place of safety.

Perhaps you can enlighten me on what the issue is with France or Germany or even the Netherlands ? France aside they speak English so it can't be the language barrier.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

ossie wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 10:28pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:10pm
St Maarten wasn't mentioned by me.

Address the beam, sir!

Rwanda has much do do with the UK: complaining that we are overcrowded whilst supporting outsourcing our refugees to a more crowded country is the most rank of hypocrisy.
Indeed it wasn't but you supplied a link with all 'dem little countries in so are guilty by association :wink:

I personally haven't supported outsourcing refugees to Rwanda, I also fail to see the issue with France or Germany as a place of safety.

Perhaps you can enlighten me on what the issue is with France or Germany or even the Netherlands ? France aside they speak English so it can't be the language barrier.
re emboldened - you claim to be against putting words into people's mouths!

Re italicised, I have not claimed you did, merely that Rwanda is relevant, as it obviously is.

Re underlined, France or Germany will not take them back, and you cannot make them. And why should they; both countries already take far more than we do.

The last sentence obviously shouldn't be dignified with any response.
ossie
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by ossie »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 10:38pm
Re underlined, France or Germany will not take them back, and you cannot make them. And why should they; both countries already take far more than we do.

The last sentence obviously shouldn't be dignified with any response.
Take them back? Most of the refugees travel through a place of safety before reaching the channel. So I ask again what is the matter with France, Germany, the Netherlands or Belgium before putting themselves in mortal danger?

The last sentence is real. I've travelled throughout Europe and engaged with many refugees, most fall back on the fact they want to come here because they speak English, thats a fact so worthy of discussion. I can give intricate details of families who have been housed in Germany yet still want to come here.
reohn2
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by reohn2 »

slowster wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 8:09pm . .......What is really at the heart of this, is that we have a government which has embraced populism, and which fears Lineker because he is widely trusted and respected by people whose votes the government is seeking to win by populist measures.
Nail,head,on!
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

ossie wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 10:46pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 10:38pm
Re underlined, France or Germany will not take them back, and you cannot make them. And why should they; both countries already take far more than we do.

The last sentence obviously shouldn't be dignified with any response.
Take them back? Most of the refugees travel through a place of safety before reaching the channel. So I ask again what is the matter with France, Germany, the Netherlands or Belgium before putting themselves in mortal danger?
They're here. Germany won't take them back. Deal with reality.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Looks like Lineker's replacement is lined up.

The government’s new asylum and migration law “amounts to cruelty without purpose” and is “immoral and inept”, the Archbishop of York has said


Literally everybody involved believes this to be true.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... op-of-york
Ben@Forest
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by Ben@Forest »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:25pm
Zulu Eleven wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:20pm
Over sixty MP’s called for Clarkson to be sacked over his Markle comments. There has been no end of MP’s calling for him to be sacked over the years.
Whether right or wrong, using your public position to attack an individual is very different to expressing opposition to government policy.

Clarkson is a bully. Lineker is a dissenter. These are not the same.
However what Lineker said may be considered offensive. I am currently in Germany. When we discussed 'what is in the English news' last night they could not believe he had used Nazi Germany as a comparison.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Ben@Forest wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 8:04am
roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:25pm
Zulu Eleven wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 9:20pm
Over sixty MP’s called for Clarkson to be sacked over his Markle comments. There has been no end of MP’s calling for him to be sacked over the years.
Whether right or wrong, using your public position to attack an individual is very different to expressing opposition to government policy.

Clarkson is a bully. Lineker is a dissenter. These are not the same.
However what Lineker said may be considered offensive. I am currently in Germany. When we discussed 'what is in the English news' last night they could not believe he had used Nazi Germany as a comparison.
I accept that in principle.

However, in practice, it takes a rather desperate attempt to twist Lineker's actual words in that regard. Take a read of what Jewish groups wrote in the link above to the Archbishop, for instance.

If it were the potential offence at issue, a simple low key request not to invoke the third Reich in future for fear of offence would have sufficed. However, in reality, Lineker has not been told not to be offensive, he's been told to be "impartial".

This appears to be a ban on anti government views,
given people like Sugar are allowed to do the opposite, Neil is allowed to edit the Spectator(!), the Chair of the BBC is a Tory donor and the director General a former tory candidate.
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Paulatic
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by Paulatic »

In 2018 a BBC statement
A spokesman for the BBC said: "Gary is not involved in any news or political output for the BBC and as such any expression of his personal political views does not affect the BBC's impartiality."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44957901

Wonder what has happened since then changes at the top perhaps :wink:
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reohn2
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

Post by reohn2 »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 8:12am . .........This appears to be a ban on anti government views,
given people like Sugar are allowed to do the opposite, Neil is allowed to edit the Spectator(!), the Chair of the BBC is a Tory donor and the director General a former tory candidate.
Strange eh? :?
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