An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves

[roubaixtuesday]

OK, the idiocy is funny, but how did we ever become this bile filled nation?

We're better than this toxic mix of stupidity and hatred. Much better.

[Lance Dopestrong]

Don't come here illegally then.

Get emergency travel papers from the Red Cross, available for refugees in any country west of Syria, and then get a plane from Albania to London for £28. All safe, all documented, all legal.

CNN were interviewing one chap who did just this, but our media and the pro-migrant groups have suppressed this as it is inconvenient to their narrative.

[simonineaston]

See too the troubling news of the way that climate protesters' court cases have been restricted.

Katy Watts, a lawyer at advocacy organisation Liberty, said it was “deeply concerning” to see protesters imprisoned just for mentioning the reason for their actions. “We all have the right to stand up for causes we believe in. But we have seen a kind of pincer movement going on over the scope of convention rights in protest cases, which [is] increasingly narrowing our rights,” she said.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ng-lawyers
This is what the sharp end of climate change looks like. People have to think about who they are and make choices based on their conclusions... like the small boat users, we're sailing into troubled waters.

[Lance Dopestrong]

That's because they committed contempt in doing so. The court is part of the judicial process, and cannot remain impartial and objective if it allows itself to be used as a politcal platform. The process is to examine their innocence or otherwise in a criminal act, nothing more.

You'd be doubtless very quick to complain if you were in front of a court and they had lost that impartiality and objectivity. While I actually support the cause of most of the protesters doing the rounds at the moment I must agree that the court room is not a platform for their campaign, and it must remain that way in order to remain impartial for the next defendent who might be there because of an act in support of an opposing political view.

[Nearholmer]

Get emergency travel papers from the Red Cross, available for refugees in any country west of Syria, and then get a plane from Albania to London for £28. All safe, all documented, all legal

Pretty much a completely irrelevant and misleading red-herring.

The document in question doesn’t confer a right of entry.

You can find the Red Cross booklet about it n-line in about two minutes, and this is from within that:

“The ICRC issues its emergency travel document for humanitarian purposes to people who do not possess a passport or other recognized travel document and find themselves unable to return to their country of origin or residence, or to proceed to a country offering temporary or permanent refuge or asylum.
These people could be asylum seekers, refugees, migrants in particularly vulnerable situations, displaced people
or stateless people.
However, the ICRC issues these documents only as a last resort, when authorities are not in a position to provide a document. The holder must have the necessary visas and meet the travel requirements. It is valid only for a one-way journey.”

One of the multiple interlocking problems underlying irregular immigration (neither the act nor the individual is necessarily “illegal”) is the rubbishy provision for seeking asylum n he UK n a regular fashion.

[Jdsk]

Don't come here illegally then.

"Can refugees enter the UK illegally?":
https://fullfact.org/immigration/can-re ... illegally/

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

One of the multiple interlocking problems underlying irregular immigration (neither the act nor the individual is “illegal”) is the rubbishy provision for seeking asylum n he UK n a regular fashion.

Yes. And if the relevant authorities would get on with the measures that would actually help we'd all be a lot better off. (Except for people smugglers and politicians profiting from the suffering.)

Jonathan

[Lance Dopestrong]

Despite the arguments to the contrary, it is very possible to enter the country illegally regardless of wny notional justification about seeking asylum. The law allows the arrest, detention, imprisonment and deportation (the latter two down to a court to decide) of those that do, so it is very much against domestic law. Section 24(1)(a) of the Immigration Act 1971 is very clear on this, and there is no arguing that legislation away - it very much exists has been challenged numerous times, and 52 years on still stands.

Over 31 years in the dibble I'd arrested hundreds for the offence of being an illegal immigrant, most having jumped off of their hiding places in lorries that had stopped at motorway services. Not my choice, but at least I tried to treat them with a bit of politeness and dignity while in my care and most responded positively to me in return.

[[XAP]Bob]

Don't come here illegally then.

Seeking asylum is *always* legal

[Nearholmer]

Despite the arguments to the contrary, it is very possible to enter the country illegally

Yes, I recognise that, and had already added a “necessarily” into my post to reflect it.

But I’m afraid that doesn’t make the ICRC document proposition any more of a solution to the problems.

TBH, I personally don’t know what a complete set of solutions, if ever such a thing could exist, might look like, but it would surely include arrangements by which people could easily seek (which is not to say over-easily obtain) asylum in the UK, ideally while in their country of origin, and at worst case while in France (which implies lots of cooperation between the UK and France).

My instinct about what is being touted by the government now is that it is another hunk of red meat thrown to the baying hounds which, of itself, will not make much difference to entry by open boat, because most of the people bobbing about in said boats haven’t the faintest idea what the detail of UK entry law is, and the exploitative b’stards who put them there don’t give a monkeys.

[Jdsk]

...
TBH, I personally don’t know what a complete set of solutions, if ever such a thing could exist, might look like, but it would surely include arrangements by which people could easily seek asylum in the UK, ideally while in their country of origin, and at worst case while in France (which implies lots of cooperation between the UK and France).

+
Much greater aid in conflict areas
Much better (or any) processing much further upstream.
Something like the Dublin Agreement on where applications would be processed
Much more effective international cooperation on actions against people smugglers
Much more effective international collaboration on known and suspected criminals
Much faster processing wherever asylum is supported
Removal of the ban on working.

+
Ending the political grandstanding
Being proud of the European Convention on Human Rights rather than trying to nibble away at the edges.

I've probably missed many others. But first you have to want to address the problems!

Jonathan

[[XAP]Bob]

TBH, I personally don’t know what a complete set of solutions, if ever such a thing could exist, might look like, but it would surely include arrangements by which people could easily seek (which is not to say over-easily obtain) asylum in the UK, ideally while in their country of origin, and at worst case while in France (which implies lots of cooperation between the UK and France).

Or indeed just processing asylum seekers here.

But France have offered us land to set up processing centres in France, it's just that the current fascists in power don't actually want to deal with asylum, because "forriners want your cookie"

[Jdsk]

The asylum backlog, and why it's a disaster:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... um-backlog

Of course the good news is that the political decision to run it like this is a matter of choice.

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

Nett annual imigration is currently 500,000, most presumably legal? The boats carry a fraction of that. Seems to me a British office where potential immigrants could apply close to Calais would be a good idea?

Al

[Nearholmer]

Just as I’m unconvinced about the government’s good will or competence in all this, I’m also unconvinced that the problem is entirely of their making or choosing; they’ve just made it worse by lack of good will and competence.

The twin problems at the root seem to be:

- people having sh*t lives in some faraway countries*; and,

- some other people exploiting their desire to escape sh*t lives for profit, with no regard to the consequences.

Both ruddy difficult problems to solve, but on both, and especially on the latter, where it ought to be possible to make greater headway, I’d mark the government’s homework “2/10, must try harder”.

*In significant cases as a result of the deliberate creation of refugee crises as a weapon of economic and social warfare. Putin for one knows that inflicting sh*t lives on millions of people creates shockwaves that ripple out and sap the economic well-being of Western European countries, and, perhaps more importantly for his purposes, sows hatred and fractures social cohesion.