An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
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An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
We're better than this toxic mix of stupidity and hatred. Much better.
- Lance Dopestrong
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Don't come here illegally then.
Get emergency travel papers from the Red Cross, available for refugees in any country west of Syria, and then get a plane from Albania to London for £28. All safe, all documented, all legal.
CNN were interviewing one chap who did just this, but our media and the pro-migrant groups have suppressed this as it is inconvenient to their narrative.
Get emergency travel papers from the Red Cross, available for refugees in any country west of Syria, and then get a plane from Albania to London for £28. All safe, all documented, all legal.
CNN were interviewing one chap who did just this, but our media and the pro-migrant groups have suppressed this as it is inconvenient to their narrative.
MIAS L5.1 instructor - advanded road and off road skills, FAST aid and casualty care, defensive tactics, SAR skills, nav, group riding, maintenance, ride and group leader qual'd.
Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
- simonineaston
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
See too the troubling news of the way that climate protesters' court cases have been restricted.
This is what the sharp end of climate change looks like. People have to think about who they are and make choices based on their conclusions... like the small boat users, we're sailing into troubled waters.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ng-lawyersKaty Watts, a lawyer at advocacy organisation Liberty, said it was “deeply concerning” to see protesters imprisoned just for mentioning the reason for their actions. “We all have the right to stand up for causes we believe in. But we have seen a kind of pincer movement going on over the scope of convention rights in protest cases, which [is] increasingly narrowing our rights,” she said.
This is what the sharp end of climate change looks like. People have to think about who they are and make choices based on their conclusions... like the small boat users, we're sailing into troubled waters.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
- Lance Dopestrong
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
That's because they committed contempt in doing so. The court is part of the judicial process, and cannot remain impartial and objective if it allows itself to be used as a politcal platform. The process is to examine their innocence or otherwise in a criminal act, nothing more.
You'd be doubtless very quick to complain if you were in front of a court and they had lost that impartiality and objectivity. While I actually support the cause of most of the protesters doing the rounds at the moment I must agree that the court room is not a platform for their campaign, and it must remain that way in order to remain impartial for the next defendent who might be there because of an act in support of an opposing political view.
You'd be doubtless very quick to complain if you were in front of a court and they had lost that impartiality and objectivity. While I actually support the cause of most of the protesters doing the rounds at the moment I must agree that the court room is not a platform for their campaign, and it must remain that way in order to remain impartial for the next defendent who might be there because of an act in support of an opposing political view.
MIAS L5.1 instructor - advanded road and off road skills, FAST aid and casualty care, defensive tactics, SAR skills, nav, group riding, maintenance, ride and group leader qual'd.
Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Pretty much a completely irrelevant and misleading red-herring.Get emergency travel papers from the Red Cross, available for refugees in any country west of Syria, and then get a plane from Albania to London for £28. All safe, all documented, all legal
The document in question doesn’t confer a right of entry.
You can find the Red Cross booklet about it n-line in about two minutes, and this is from within that:
“The ICRC issues its emergency travel document for humanitarian purposes to people who do not possess a passport or other recognized travel document and find themselves unable to return to their country of origin or residence, or to proceed to a country offering temporary or permanent refuge or asylum.
These people could be asylum seekers, refugees, migrants in particularly vulnerable situations, displaced people
or stateless people.
However, the ICRC issues these documents only as a last resort, when authorities are not in a position to provide a document. The holder must have the necessary visas and meet the travel requirements. It is valid only for a one-way journey.”
One of the multiple interlocking problems underlying irregular immigration (neither the act nor the individual is necessarily “illegal”) is the rubbishy provision for seeking asylum n he UK n a regular fashion.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 8 Mar 2023, 8:33am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
"Can refugees enter the UK illegally?":Don't come here illegally then.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/can-re ... illegally/
Jonathan
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Yes. And if the relevant authorities would get on with the measures that would actually help we'd all be a lot better off. (Except for people smugglers and politicians profiting from the suffering.)Nearholmer wrote: ↑8 Mar 2023, 8:17amOne of the multiple interlocking problems underlying irregular immigration (neither the act nor the individual is “illegal”) is the rubbishy provision for seeking asylum n he UK n a regular fashion.
Jonathan
- Lance Dopestrong
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Despite the arguments to the contrary, it is very possible to enter the country illegally regardless of wny notional justification about seeking asylum. The law allows the arrest, detention, imprisonment and deportation (the latter two down to a court to decide) of those that do, so it is very much against domestic law. Section 24(1)(a) of the Immigration Act 1971 is very clear on this, and there is no arguing that legislation away - it very much exists has been challenged numerous times, and 52 years on still stands.
Over 31 years in the dibble I'd arrested hundreds for the offence of being an illegal immigrant, most having jumped off of their hiding places in lorries that had stopped at motorway services. Not my choice, but at least I tried to treat them with a bit of politeness and dignity while in my care and most responded positively to me in return.
Over 31 years in the dibble I'd arrested hundreds for the offence of being an illegal immigrant, most having jumped off of their hiding places in lorries that had stopped at motorway services. Not my choice, but at least I tried to treat them with a bit of politeness and dignity while in my care and most responded positively to me in return.
MIAS L5.1 instructor - advanded road and off road skills, FAST aid and casualty care, defensive tactics, SAR skills, nav, group riding, maintenance, ride and group leader qual'd.
Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Seeking asylum is *always* legal
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Yes, I recognise that, and had already added a “necessarily” into my post to reflect it.Despite the arguments to the contrary, it is very possible to enter the country illegally
But I’m afraid that doesn’t make the ICRC document proposition any more of a solution to the problems.
TBH, I personally don’t know what a complete set of solutions, if ever such a thing could exist, might look like, but it would surely include arrangements by which people could easily seek (which is not to say over-easily obtain) asylum in the UK, ideally while in their country of origin, and at worst case while in France (which implies lots of cooperation between the UK and France).
My instinct about what is being touted by the government now is that it is another hunk of red meat thrown to the baying hounds which, of itself, will not make much difference to entry by open boat, because most of the people bobbing about in said boats haven’t the faintest idea what the detail of UK entry law is, and the exploitative b’stards who put them there don’t give a monkeys.
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
+Nearholmer wrote: ↑8 Mar 2023, 8:51am ...
TBH, I personally don’t know what a complete set of solutions, if ever such a thing could exist, might look like, but it would surely include arrangements by which people could easily seek asylum in the UK, ideally while in their country of origin, and at worst case while in France (which implies lots of cooperation between the UK and France).
Much greater aid in conflict areas
Much better (or any) processing much further upstream.
Something like the Dublin Agreement on where applications would be processed
Much more effective international cooperation on actions against people smugglers
Much more effective international collaboration on known and suspected criminals
Much faster processing wherever asylum is supported
Removal of the ban on working.
+
Ending the political grandstanding
Being proud of the European Convention on Human Rights rather than trying to nibble away at the edges.
I've probably missed many others. But first you have to want to address the problems!
Jonathan
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Or indeed just processing asylum seekers here.Nearholmer wrote: ↑8 Mar 2023, 8:51am
TBH, I personally don’t know what a complete set of solutions, if ever such a thing could exist, might look like, but it would surely include arrangements by which people could easily seek (which is not to say over-easily obtain) asylum in the UK, ideally while in their country of origin, and at worst case while in France (which implies lots of cooperation between the UK and France).
But France have offered us land to set up processing centres in France, it's just that the current fascists in power don't actually want to deal with asylum, because "forriners want your cookie"
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
The asylum backlog, and why it's a disaster:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... um-backlog
Of course the good news is that the political decision to run it like this is a matter of choice.
Jonathan
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... um-backlog
Of course the good news is that the political decision to run it like this is a matter of choice.
Jonathan
Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Nett annual imigration is currently 500,000, most presumably legal? The boats carry a fraction of that. Seems to me a British office where potential immigrants could apply close to Calais would be a good idea?
Al
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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Re: An Illegal Bill to Stop Immigrants becoming Slaves
Just as I’m unconvinced about the government’s good will or competence in all this, I’m also unconvinced that the problem is entirely of their making or choosing; they’ve just made it worse by lack of good will and competence.
The twin problems at the root seem to be:
- people having sh*t lives in some faraway countries*; and,
- some other people exploiting their desire to escape sh*t lives for profit, with no regard to the consequences.
Both ruddy difficult problems to solve, but on both, and especially on the latter, where it ought to be possible to make greater headway, I’d mark the government’s homework “2/10, must try harder”.
*In significant cases as a result of the deliberate creation of refugee crises as a weapon of economic and social warfare. Putin for one knows that inflicting sh*t lives on millions of people creates shockwaves that ripple out and sap the economic well-being of Western European countries, and, perhaps more importantly for his purposes, sows hatred and fractures social cohesion.
The twin problems at the root seem to be:
- people having sh*t lives in some faraway countries*; and,
- some other people exploiting their desire to escape sh*t lives for profit, with no regard to the consequences.
Both ruddy difficult problems to solve, but on both, and especially on the latter, where it ought to be possible to make greater headway, I’d mark the government’s homework “2/10, must try harder”.
*In significant cases as a result of the deliberate creation of refugee crises as a weapon of economic and social warfare. Putin for one knows that inflicting sh*t lives on millions of people creates shockwaves that ripple out and sap the economic well-being of Western European countries, and, perhaps more importantly for his purposes, sows hatred and fractures social cohesion.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 8 Mar 2023, 9:46am, edited 1 time in total.