BEVs

[Cowsham]

Posted by Portsmouth Climate Action group:
...

Excellent.

And the psychological problems of change are very important in this transition.

Jonathan

I'd round it up to question

20. Is it true in the winter when there's snow and or frost you have to go outside in the cold and either start the engine of a petrol or diesel car about half an hour before you intend to drive or pour loads of hot water over the windscreen? Does that crack the windscreen if it's got any stone chips in?

Wait there's more ( like Jimmy Cricket )
21. Will I die in the snow if I get trapped in the snow with petrol or diesel car and need to keep warm by starting the engine.

[Carlton green]

Posted by Portsmouth Climate Action group:

Thinking of replacing my electric car with a fossil fuel car and have some questions?

That was a bit of fun and rather jolly but also somewhat partisan, so it’s something to look at and then bin because a balanced approach is better. Personally my views on a replacement vehicle are heading towards see what’s about when the time comes, and so long as the cold weather range (of a BEV) will reliably see me through a couple of hours driving then it’ll probably not be too constraining. I wonder if anyone remembers the days when small motorcycles and scooters had small fuel tanks; the riders got by on what they had and refuelled when they needed to.

Here’s a couple of questions to add to the list:

# I hear that electric cars are relatively heavy and that by using a petrol car I’ll help the environment by damaging the roads less.
# I hear that petrol cars both accelerate more slowly than electric cars and make a noise, and that both those things save pedestrians from being knocked over.
# I hear that if I buy a petrol car my tax relief will disappear, why is that? Surely a car is just a car and I’m a wealthy manager - employing lots of people - so I deserve tax relief.
# I hear that if I use a petrol car I’ll be helping the environment because lithium mining is very damaging and lithium batteries are yet to be reprocessed in large numbers into new ones.

If Portsmouth Climate Action group want to do something useful then I’d say to them encourage active transport and public transport use, and seek reductions in (private) vehicle size, weight and power.

[Jdsk]

I read it as a light-hearted comment and insight on how we argue, not as a serious option appraisal for choice of vehicle, either at a personal or national level.

But if you want a serious option appraisal I suggest including rather more questions than those.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
If Portsmouth Climate Action group want to do something useful then I’d say to them encourage active transport and public transport use, and seek reductions in (private) vehicle size, weight and power.

Did you have the opportunity to read what they do before posting that? If you click on the link below it will give a convenient introduction.

Portsmouth Climate Action:
https://www.portsmouthclimateaction.org.uk

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

Posted by Portsmouth Climate Action group:

Thinking of replacing my electric car with a fossil fuel car and have some questions?

That was a bit of fun and rather jolly but also somewhat partisan

Here’s a couple of questions to add to the list:

# I hear that electric cars are relatively heavy and that by using a petrol car I’ll help the environment by damaging the roads less.

Not true for several reasons already discussed up thread in great detail or even properly measurable.

# I hear that petrol cars both accelerate more slowly than electric cars and make a noise, and that both those things save pedestrians from being knocked over.

Ever heard the modern diesel car ? I haven't cos most are silent. On the other hand on a cycle about a year ago, without looking round, I knew my niece was heading to work in my brothers Leaf because of 3 things -- time of the day -- direction I was going and the whir of the motor behind me.

# I hear that if I buy a petrol car my tax relief will disappear, why is that? Surely a car is just a car and I’m a wealthy manager - employing lots of people - so I deserve tax relief.

I didn't get tax relief.

# I hear that if I use a petrol car I’ll be helping the environment because lithium mining is very damaging and lithium batteries are yet to be reprocessed in large numbers into new ones.

No you didn't.

[Carlton green]

...
If Portsmouth Climate Action group want to do something useful then I’d say to them encourage active transport and public transport use, and seek reductions in (private) vehicle size, weight and power.

Did you have the opportunity to read what they do before posting that? If you click on the link below it will give a convenient introduction.

Portsmouth Climate Action:
https://www.portsmouthclimateaction.org.uk

Jonathan

Fair comment, really I was responding to a set of comments that I assume are meant to be sort of factual and sort of humorous. In this case it would have been useful to be informed of what else that group were doing. I think we all need to be wary of both greenwashing and the other extreme.

[Carlton green]

Posted by Portsmouth Climate Action group:

Thinking of replacing my electric car with a fossil fuel car and have some questions?

That was a bit of fun and rather jolly but also somewhat partisan

Here’s a couple of questions to add to the list:

# I hear that electric cars are relatively heavy and that by using a petrol car I’ll help the environment by damaging the roads less.

Not true for several reasons already discussed up thread in great detail or even properly measurable.

# I hear that petrol cars both accelerate more slowly than electric cars and make a noise, and that both those things save pedestrians from being knocked over.

Ever heard the modern diesel car ? I haven't cos most are silent. On the other hand on a cycle about a year ago, without looking round, I knew my niece was heading to work in my brothers Leaf because of 3 things -- time of the day -- direction I was going and the whir of the motor behind me.

# I hear that if I buy a petrol car my tax relief will disappear, why is that? Surely a car is just a car and I’m a wealthy manager - employing lots of people - so I deserve tax relief.

I didn't get tax relief.

# I hear that if I use a petrol car I’ll be helping the environment because lithium mining is very damaging and lithium batteries are yet to be reprocessed in large numbers into new ones.

No you didn't.

Aren’t you supposed to be at work rather than scribbling on some forum?

There are always exceptions to ‘the rule’ and your points are taken in good humour. I’ll not argue with you, the issues have been debated endlessly here already but did (and do) think the Portsmouth points unhelpfully one sided - made me smile though.

[Biospace]

Now that the frost is back this is where the Nissan comes into it's own. Nice to get into a warm defrosted car for the drive to work.

There's little finer than hopping into any warmed up car in this weather, whatever the badge. So long as people don't start up their car and leave the engine running - it's worse than Drax shovelling on the American trees to balance the Grid!

Posted by Portsmouth Climate Action group:

Thinking of replacing my electric car with a fossil fuel car and have some questions?

That was a bit of fun and rather jolly but also somewhat partisan.

Partisan is ok and probably anticipated, but more accuracy or something genuinely witty might have been expected given the high number of academic qualifications behind that Facebook post.

Unfortunately it's the sort of statement which resonates mostly within converted, even managing to irritate more than a few of them. It's vexing since so much damage can be done in such a short time for those who might easily be persuaded with a more honest and truthful approach.

[Cowsham]

Aren’t you supposed to be at work rather than scribbling on some forum?

Elevenses

[Cowsham]

Partisan is ok and probably anticipated, but more accuracy or something genuinely witty might have been expected given the high number of academic qualifications behind that Facebook post.

There's people on Facebook with qualifications?

[Biospace]

Yes, a university education is a pre-requisite for many higher functioning activities nowadays.

[Biospace]

It's possible at least some of the question marks over the Spring's steering could be put down to the cheap tyres it is supplied with,

• "...total lack of information from the steering, exacerbated by limited grip from Linglong tyres ... and the back goes so light that you’ll soon be dealing with oversteer"

- https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-revie ... -electric/

For me as a cyclist, one of the positive aspects of car evolution is that they've had basic handling anomalies all but eradicated, so if a driver is caught out by an unmarked corner or obstacle, there isn't a sudden loss of control, especially snap oversteer.

That report is rather disturbing. Odd about the back end feeling light when that is where the battery is. As you suggest, the tyres may be an important factor.

The delay until right hand drive spec cars are tested is frustrating. I guess we are still waiting to hear reviews of UK spec eC3s and Renault 5s.

Not necessarily odd - perhaps simply the centre of mass making itself known, combined with a chassis which has had its spring rates altered and possibly not retuned to behave as it had. I've read only the roof panel is carried over from the old car, which is more than a little economical with the truth - it's fundamentally the same car (same 'chassis' and more) but with a cosmetic freshen up.

Almost every report I've read has brought up the steering deadness in one way or another, it does seem to be a feature of Chinese cars. Of more concern to many will be NCAP's comments about the Spring's crash performance, “downright problematic”, “life-threatening” and "these disappointing results show that safety has now become collateral damage in the group’s transition to electric cars.”

Anyone wishing to check for Dacia Spring longer term issues would do well to search for "Dacia Spring klong"; there has been a German tv programme devoted to the plight of the unhappy owners. Here's one forum discussion, https://forums-automobile--propre-com.t ... p#comments

[Carlton green]

Yes, a university education is a pre-requisite for many higher functioning activities nowadays.

It’s a diversion, but mostly those that now start degree courses are led - channeled even - to University by an educational establishment that’s not fit for purpose. A degree has become an unreliable marker for intelligence.

[Cowsham]

Yes, a university education is a pre-requisite for many higher functioning activities nowadays.

It’s a diversion, but mostly those that now start degree courses are led - channeled even - to University by an educational establishment that’s not fit for purpose. A degree has become an unreliable marker for intelligence.

I'd agree with that. There seems to be a dangerous drinking culture that goes along with a university degree for full time students.

[UpWrong]

Yes, a university education is a pre-requisite for many higher functioning activities nowadays.

It’s a diversion, but mostly those that now start degree courses are led - channeled even - to University by an educational establishment that’s not fit for purpose. A degree has become an unreliable marker for intelligence.

It's not a marker of intelligence when 50% go to uni, get spoon fed, have open book exams and get ChatGPT to write their essays.