BEVs

[Biospace]

The Daily Mail has asked some experts to check Atkinson's article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... duped.html

Experts, huh!

Is this the DM simply making sure it is seen to ridicule the Guardian, while printing many articles sceptical of BEVs?

That was my guess for the motivation, rather than any concern for the truth or regard for the environment.

"Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.”

An apposite quote! Perhaps someone has noted the DM would appear even dafter than usual if they spew nothing but ridicule and criticism of EVs, so this opportunity is used to kill two birds with one stone.

The scale of circulation of this article suggests that RA is something of a national icon, but many seem to have missed his central points:

• Many people have been misled to believe the global environmental benefit of BEVs is significantly better than the reality

• We treat cars as disposable fashion item which are scrapped well before they are worn

• If feasible (and you don't drive a diesel much in towns and cities), use your existing car for longer as significant improvements in BEVs are likely

[Cowsham]

Is this real?
https://youtu.be/gjgpD0ZS3zs

[Jdsk]

Is this real?
https://youtu.be/gjgpD0ZS3zs

It's 30 minutes long. What does it assert?

Thanks

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

Many people have been misled to believe the global environmental benefit of BEVs is significantly better than the reality
We treat cars as disposable fashion item which are scrapped well before they are worn
If feasible (and you don't drive a diesel much in towns and cities), use your existing car for longer as significant improvements in BEVs are likely

I am sceptical of some EVs. I believe that as a 'town car' a small EV is an excellent idea although I couldnt afford one and we have a perfectly good Ka that serves that purpose. I know from my sons company provided EV its fine for local journeys but when he goes long distances its not very practical due to charging uncertainties. My 13 year old SEAT EXEO diesel with 100.000 on the clock will probably see me out. As my annual milage is less than 3,000 I dont think its very harmful, in fact as it isnt being replaced by a new car, or driven in polluted urban areas it makes perfect eco sense.

Al

[Cowsham]

Is this real?
https://youtu.be/gjgpD0ZS3zs

It's 30 minutes long. What does it assert?

Thanks

Jonathan

Advances in battery tech but I suspicious it's just click bait

[Jdsk]

Is this real?
https://youtu.be/gjgpD0ZS3zs

It's 30 minutes long. What does it assert?

Advances in battery tech but I suspicious it's just click bait

Thanks.

Of course there will be both new technologies and improvements to current (!) technologies.

For BEVs I don't expect much of either that will affect my buying decisions in the next decade.

Unfortunately it's one of the many ways to create FUD.

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

Is this real?
https://youtu.be/gjgpD0ZS3zs

It's a you tube video.

If it's real there will be a written document which is much easier and quicker to check.

If that doesn't exist, it's not real.

[UpWrong]

Is this real?
https://youtu.be/gjgpD0ZS3zs

It's 30 minutes long. What does it assert?

Thanks

Jonathan

Advances in battery tech but I suspicious it's just click bait

Doesn't sound like an option for EVs when you read the Wikipedia entry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium%E2 ... ur_battery

Sodium-ion batteries are being trialled in EVs.

[Jdsk]

It's 30 minutes long. What does it assert?

Advances in battery tech but I suspicious it's just click bait

Doesn't sound like an option for EVs when you read the Wikipedia entry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium%E2 ... ur_battery

Sodium-ion batteries are being trialled in EVs.

Ah... it's about sodium-sulphur. Thanks.

I have frequent discussions about sodium-ion batteries with the chair of one of the leading companies. Some big advantages but for use in car-like objects I refer to my previous comment about timescales.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
It (Atkinson's article) identifies quite a lot of the issues that need to be taken into account both for policy and individual decisions. But it's highly selective on the information which should inform those decisions, for example on moving and storing hydrogen, on lifetime emissions and crossover points, the life of batteries, and the feasibility of batteries for commercial vehicles.
...

PS: The Guardian's approach is great for supporting informed discussion: open access, no paywall, no identity tracking, open comment below the line, removal of abuse...

And the points that I've made here are all fleshed out in the below the line discussion there.

Another article in the same publication. Direct responses to previous assertions. Cites the relevant sources. As above this approach helps to support informed discussion.

"Fact check: why Rowan Atkinson is wrong about electric vehicles":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... c-vehicles

Jonathan

[Biospace]

"Fact check: why Rowan Atkinson is wrong about electric vehicles":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... c-vehicles

Jonathan

My impression is here are two people who understand the situation well. If you consider the debate as a picture on the wall, one is standing very close, the other at a distance.

Evans' message is that the widespread use of the BEV is central to meeting UK and global climate goals.

Atkinson's main messages are:
- many have been misled with respect to how clean the BEV really is, at present
- the lifecycle of the motor car is much shorter than it should be, if we wish to tread more lightly on the planet

It's worth noting that:

• A BEV's battery represents the greatest proportion of its GHG emissions - the larger the battery, the greater this is

• PM10 emissions from EVs are equal to those of modern ICEvs https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 101630187X

• BEVs are faster and heavier than what they replace

• A BEV charged in the UK (and many other nations) has its additional marginal demand for electricity met by burning fossil fuel

• From the climobil website, the lifecycle (200,000km) greenhouse gas emissions of a diesel Golf and 181km range (not a large range) eGolf , for UK electricity, give the following graphic. Even were this calculation 10% pessimistic for the battery version, the difference is nowhere near as great as the public has been led to believe. (Click the image to view full size)

It is fair to say that in comparing like with like, this does give a different picture from comparing all ICEvs with all BEVs, which is what I imagine Simon Evans is doing.

[Jdsk]

The e-Golf was released in 2014 and production ended in 2020. I suggest rerunning that comparison with a current (!) model such as the ID.3.

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

The e-Golf was released in 2014 and production ended in 2020. I suggest rerunning that comparison with a current (!) model such as the ID.3.

Jonathan

I suggest that using an older VW electric car is a fair comparison. Reuse of older cars should be encouraged over needless new manufacture and VW products are generally pretty good. My days of getting a new car are gone, limited need and income now I’m retired, and many others buy second hand too.

Setting aside the comparison - one that I’ve no problems with - Biospace made a raft of other valid points.

[Jdsk]

The e-Golf was released in 2014 and production ended in 2020. I suggest rerunning that comparison with a current (!) model such as the ID.3.

I suggest that using an older VW electric car is a fair comparison. Reuse of older cars should be encouraged over needless new manufacture and VW products are generally pretty good. My days of getting a new car are gone, limited need and income now I’m retired, and many others buy second hand too.

Yes, as always it depends on what precise question is being asked. This thread would improve enormously with a bit more emphasis on that.

But the quoted comparison was for new cars. And BEVs have developed enormously since 2014.

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

You need to go to Specsavers. Quoting the Guardian as an unbiased fact checking news source you are swallowing their propaganda whole. They arent independant at all. They are an organ of the hard left section of the Labour Party, the EU and the Greens many of whom are Marxists.

PS: The Guardian's approach is great for supporting informed discussion: open access, no paywall, no identity tracking, open comment below the line, removal of abuse...

Whats more there are no facts checked whatsoever, its all just assertions.

Al