BEVs

[reohn2]

Garlton Green
Spot on!
And to add,driving offences are treated far too lenient by the authorities,which is a political decision so as not to alienate the driving public from any political party in power,increased punishment for drivers isn't a vote winner.

[Biospace]

Yep, more mass equals more momentum equals more damage. Then there's more particulates from brake dust and tyres not to mention more road damage, especially with the increased torque. We have an epidemic of mobesity.

If it's one hard object hitting another one soft object hitting another similar object, yes. But when a metal vehicle hits a soft human, whether the car has 10x or 25x the pedestrian's mass isn't going to make much difference. The height and profile of the front of a vehicle affects the initial trajectory of the pedestrian, in some cases he/she will rotate onto the bonnet and possibly windscreen. I believe there has been legislation in place for several years to ensure there is nothing hard directly under a car bonnet, so that it acts more as a cushion.

The chance of a fatal outcome even at relatively low speeds is significantly greater with a larger, taller car - yet another reason SUVs, 4x4s and vans are more of a threat to life. Sadly, these are becoming almost normal - I know of someone who has recently replaced their Passat estate with a VW van, purely for reasons of fashion. 'Mobesity' is a very apt word.



While brake dust particulates are likely to be reduced with most BEVs since the motor does a lot of the braking, their extra weight and torque does wear tyres more quickly.

We have little idea of how tyre pollution is affecting us, their composition is a cocktail of unpleasant chemicals, some of which have recently been discovered to become 100x more toxic on exposure to ozone, at ground level. They contribute to the decimation of rain forests and require ~7 gallons of oil to make one car tyre.

Their toxicity remains a problem during disposal, which consumes even more FF. The ground up 'crumb' is used in artificial turf, the links with cancer are now so clear that the Dutch have begun removing artificial football pitches.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... lth-fears/
https://www.kimointernational.org/news/ ... cial-turf/

[pete75]

Scooters are merely consumer objects like a washing machine or tumble drier. Such things can never be "awesome", even allowing for how the word is over-used and misused these days.

In Pete world maybe,however you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome.

… I found myself nodding in agreement. ‘Awesome’, as commonly used by some folk, would describe how I felt about my first good motor bike. As others might have describe it, even other motorcyclists, it wasn’t anything particularly wonderful but to me it was life changing and not merely some consumer object. Today’s modern scooters are arguably much better products than those of the past, magic carpets that the rider sits on as it effortlessly carries them to any place they desire … ‘awesome’, as commonly used, seems to fit the bill .

As for BEV’s, they are far too large and if we were serious about environmental issues then scooters - of various forms - could provide suitable enough transport for many people. Historically motorcycles and scooters enabled poor men and women to get around and to my mind it’s a pity that their use has been so heavily ‘discouraged’ by government.

That's just my point. The word awesome is commonly misused these days.

[reohn2]

Pete
For the record I'll repeat :- you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome

[[XAP]Bob]

Where does this tyre myth come from?

EVs don't need tyre replacements every few hundred miles, which is what some comments (and news reports) seem to be suggesting.

KwikFit's study suggests that front tyre wear across all segments was just 4% greater for BEV than ICE.
They also point out that BEVs typically spend more time in urban environments (where tyre wear is higher).


British Gas fits all its vans with non-BEV specific Michelin CrossClimate tyres for the all-year round grip they offer and has found they last more than twice as long on BEVs (40k) than on diesels (15k). There are a number of factors reported by their head of fleet - they've increase the size of their vans slightly, and so crossed over into van tyre territory, the electric drivetrain is "gentler because of the way they take up drive", and engineers tend to drive BEVs more carefully.

[Carlton green]

Pete
For the record I'll repeat :- you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome

Awesome can equal extremely good, well so says a well respected guide: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/awesome

[reohn2]

Pete
For the record I'll repeat :- you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome

Awesome can equal extremely good, well so says a well respected guide: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/awesome

Awesome,definitions from the link:- causing feelings of great admiration, respect or fear.
Or:- extremely good

I have great admiration and respect for modern scooters for their practicality,and as a very practical vehicle their usefulness is extremely good!

I don't I fear scooters though

[Biospace]

Where does this tyre myth come from?

The figures you quote which suggest tyres on a BEV would last more than twice as long as an equivalent diesel are very interesting, do you have some links to the data please? Similarly for urban use wearing tyres faster than non-urban use.

The lighter and less torque the cars I have used down the years, the less they have worn their tyres. All those I know with BEVs report having to replace at least the driven tyres more often.

[pete75]

Pete
For the record I'll repeat :- you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome

And neither are you, though you seem to think you are.

[pete75]

Pete
For the record I'll repeat :- you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome

Awesome can equal extremely good, well so says a well respected guide: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/awesome

Awesome,definitions from the link:- causing feelings of great admiration, respect or fear.
Or:- extremely good

I have great admiration and respect for modern scooters for their practicality,and as a very practical vehicle their usefulness is extremely good!

I don't I fear scooters though

As it happens I saw a bunch, well three, of them out for a ride this morning. Two Lambrettas and a Vespa, trailing their usual cloud of blue smoke. Whoever designs scooter engines is completely unaware of Walter Kaaden's work on the engine type. I think they're still running on about 25:1 oil mix. Might be a bit better if they were four strokes, though the only four stroke scooter I'm aware of is the Triumph Tigress and they stopped making them in about 1966.

[reohn2]

Pete
For the record I'll repeat :- you aren't the definitive of what is and what isn't awesome

And neither are you, though you seem to think you are.

No I'm not. I merely used the word "awesome" to describe a mode of transport that fits a situation very well indeed,it didn't sit well with you and,as is your want you decided it's a good time for an argument about that description by describing a scooter as similar to a washing machine or a fridge,there then follows a discussion of the word "awesome" with an example of what in your mind is "awesome" claiming a scooter can't possibly fit my description which I disagreed with.
Then three or was it four pages go by and you drag it up again only to be proved wrong by a dictionary definition.

That's the fully story.

[reohn2]

As it happens I saw a bunch, well three, of them out for a ride this morning. Two Lambrettas and a Vespa, trailing their usual cloud of blue smoke. Whoever designs scooter engines is completely unaware of Walter Kaaden's work on the engine type. I think they're still running on about 25:1 oil mix. Might be a bit better if they were four strokes, though the only four stroke scooter I'm aware of is the Triumph Tigress and they stopped making them in about 1966.

Now you're just being silly and need to get you head out of the '60's with regard to scooters.The scooters you mention are regarded as "classic" vehicles and part of the Mod scene that's resurfaced in recent years,in the same way some 2stroke motorcycles from the 50's,60's and 70's such as Bantams,Francis Barnet/Villiers,some Kawasakis,Yamahas and Suzukis etc are regarded as classics.

All modern scooters made today for use in Europe and the UK are Euro5 compliant and by definition are 4strokes as mass produced 2stoke engines can't meet emissions legislation without choking their power so much as to render them useless,this has been the case since the late 70' early 80's which began with the USA's and particularly Californian emissions clamp down whic was quickly followed by the EU.

I strongly recommend you look at Honda,Suzuki and Yamaha's scooter catalogues,if you haven't already,for some truly "awesome" scooters with engines ranging from 50 to 400cc then there's Honda's crossover 750cc ADV with their DCT transmission.
Suzuki have only in the past few years stopped production of their flagship Burgman 650 Exscutive model a quite quick,fully loaded and very comfortable machine not unlike a small wheel twist and go scooter version of my NT700 Deauville albeit not quite as powerful .

EDIT:- I forgot to mention,also mentioned up thread by Upwrong the Electric scooter now emerging,though the range is reletively short but itpf the Honda battery bank takes off that wouldn't matter so much.

[jimlews]

This looks like an intelligent and worthwhile approach to the EV.
But no batteries.

https://www.riversimple.com/88923-2/

May have been posted previously; I haven't trawled through all 40 pages.

[pete75]

As it happens I saw a bunch, well three, of them out for a ride this morning. Two Lambrettas and a Vespa, trailing their usual cloud of blue smoke. Whoever designs scooter engines is completely unaware of Walter Kaaden's work on the engine type. I think they're still running on about 25:1 oil mix. Might be a bit better if they were four strokes, though the only four stroke scooter I'm aware of is the Triumph Tigress and they stopped making them in about 1966.

Now you're just being silly and need to get you head out of the '60's with regard to scooters.The scooters you mention are regarded as "classic" vehicles and part of the Mod scene that's resurfaced in recent years,in the same way some 2stroke motorcycles from the 50's,60's and 70's such as Bantams,Francis Barnet/Villiers,some Kawasakis,Yamahas and Suzukis etc are regarded as classics.

All modern scooters made today for use in Europe and the UK are Euro5 compliant and by definition are 4strokes as mass produced 2stoke engines can't meet emissions legislation without choking their power so much as to render them useless,this has been the case since the late 70' early 80's which began with the USA's and particularly Californian emissions clamp down whic was quickly followed by the EU.

I strongly recommend you look at Honda,Suzuki and Yamaha's scooter catalogues,if you haven't already,for some truly "awesome" scooters with engines ranging from 50 to 400cc then there's Honda's crossover 750cc ADV with their DCT transmission.
Suzuki have only in the past few years stopped production of their flagship Burgman 650 Exscutive model a quite quick,fully loaded and very comfortable machine not unlike a small wheel twist and go scooter version of my NT700 Deauville albeit not quite as powerful .

EDIT:- I forgot to mention,also mentioned up thread by Upwrong the Electric scooter now emerging,though the range is reletively short but itpf the Honda battery bank takes off that wouldn't matter so much.

Whatever, they're still crap.

[reohn2]

Whatever, they're still crap.

That'll be the considered and unbiased assessment of someone who's never owned a modern scooter and so has no idea of their worth......