National Transport Strategy

cycle tramp
Posts: 4877
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by cycle tramp »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Aug 2024, 5:41pm "National Travel Survey: 2023":
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... urvey-2023

Guardian coverage:`
"People in England driving more, cycling less and walking further, survey shows":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/art ... -transport

Jonathan
...except the survey may be flawed... the survey itself apparently works by selecting households at random and then sends them a diary to complete in a week(its late and I may have misread) which means the results might well be effected by both the weather and the time of year...

..looking a bit deeper some of the surveys are made at the road side, but that's no use if there's off road cycle path nearby which attracts cyclists away from the point the survey is being made..

..it is somewhat concerning that central government doesn't have a better way to measure this sort of data..
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
awavey
Posts: 380
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by awavey »

I agree the survey method is flawed, but Ive been saying that for years, and no one cared when the survey showed increases in cycling/walking, so its hard to complain when it shows a reverse in the trend and ultimately it is what it is and if the results it shows are now down, then we just have to deal with the fallout from that.

and why should we be surprised anyway ? you can see with your eyes every journey by bike or walking, there are growing numbers of cars on the road now and a distinct lack of cyclists or walkers. It was interesting to see the impact a road closure had in our local area, that Id long suspected was used as rat run, even though its got cycle lanes, albeit could do with a repaint, but it utterly gridlocked the local area for hours at peak times, and youre thinking but how it cant be used that much can it ? and yet clearly it is, due to conveniance of access by car,and of course most of the people sat in those cars had travelled less than a mile anyway.

but councils are spending money and not delivering real change to cyclists or walking, and we'll just keep repeating this learned lesson,till someone actually grasps the nettle properly.
cycle tramp
Posts: 4877
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by cycle tramp »

awavey wrote: 29 Aug 2024, 12:25am I agree the survey method is flawed, but Ive been saying that for years, and no one cared when the survey showed increases in cycling/walking, so its hard to complain when it shows a reverse in the trend

and why should we be surprised anyway ? you can see with your eyes every journey by bike or walking, there are growing numbers of cars on the road now and a distinct lack of cyclists or walkers. It was interesting to see the impact a road closure had in our local area, that Id long suspected was used as rat run, even though its got cycle lanes, albeit could do with a repaint, but it utterly gridlocked the local area for hours at peak times, and youre thinking but how it cant be used that much can it ? and yet clearly it is, due to conveniance of access by car,and of course most of the people sat in those cars had travelled less than a mile anyway.
Personally, I think it depends when and where you were looking - this sunny Bank Holiday Monday, the lanes across the flats of Somerset were alive with cyclists.. I counted 4 or 5 groups, including an older couple on a pair of matching electric bikes....
Equally I've noticed more cycles being used in urban journeys in and around Bridgwater- since the completion of another housing estate.....

...I would have felt more secure in the data if the window of measurement had been for a month, that way the effects of bad weather could be slightly mitigated.

..and sadly I think its going to take more than more cycle facilities being built to see an increase in cyclists - we need a culture change. I cycle because my father did and so did his father.. however many now don't because even their grandfather went everywhere by car... whereas when I was a kid everyone asked Santa for a new bike, I wonder how many do now?
The secondary issue, is that like motorcycles, bikes are seen as leisure equipment. And I think that's a sad loss of functionality for such a useful tool with great environmental and social benefits.

...but much like a game of othello, minds can be changed. My bikes are used for fairly mundane journeys now - however since riding around, I've noticed one neighbour has started to cycle to the shops and back on a regular bases.

Simply being out and about on your bike, might encourage others to do so.... it did for Ann Mustoe, who cycled around the world.
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
Bmblbzzz
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Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I'd say there are probably fewer cyclists on the roads here at peak hours, which might be down to the decline of commuting generally. ASLs still full though. Car numbers harder to judge, since you don't have the same concentration points.
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Aug 2024, 5:41pm "National Travel Survey: 2023":
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... urvey-2023

Guardian coverage:`
"People in England driving more, cycling less and walking further, survey shows":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/art ... -transport
From another thread:
How do they know the distances cyclists are riding?
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... efinitions
https://natcen.ac.uk/publications/natio ... vel-survey

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

Campaign for Better Transport and others have written to the Chancellor recommending road pricing.
https://x.com/CBTransport/status/1830890278661615810

Can anyone find the letter?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Sep 2024, 11:19am Campaign for Better Transport and others have written to the Chancellor recommending road pricing.
https://x.com/CBTransport/status/1830890278661615810

Can anyone find the letter?
I've found a report from 2022, but not the letter:

"Pay-as-you-drive: The British public’s views on vehicle taxation reform":
https://bettertransport.org.uk/research/5110/

Jonathan
awavey
Posts: 380
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by awavey »

cycle tramp wrote: 29 Aug 2024, 7:47am
awavey wrote: 29 Aug 2024, 12:25am I agree the survey method is flawed, but Ive been saying that for years, and no one cared when the survey showed increases in cycling/walking, so its hard to complain when it shows a reverse in the trend

and why should we be surprised anyway ? you can see with your eyes every journey by bike or walking, there are growing numbers of cars on the road now and a distinct lack of cyclists or walkers. It was interesting to see the impact a road closure had in our local area, that Id long suspected was used as rat run, even though its got cycle lanes, albeit could do with a repaint, but it utterly gridlocked the local area for hours at peak times, and youre thinking but how it cant be used that much can it ? and yet clearly it is, due to conveniance of access by car,and of course most of the people sat in those cars had travelled less than a mile anyway.
Personally, I think it depends when and where you were looking - this sunny Bank Holiday Monday, the lanes across the flats of Somerset were alive with cyclists.. I counted 4 or 5 groups, including an older couple on a pair of matching electric bikes....
Equally I've noticed more cycles being used in urban journeys in and around Bridgwater- since the completion of another housing estate.....

...I would have felt more secure in the data if the window of measurement had been for a month, that way the effects of bad weather could be slightly mitigated.

..and sadly I think its going to take more than more cycle facilities being built to see an increase in cyclists - we need a culture change. I cycle because my father did and so did his father.. however many now don't because even their grandfather went everywhere by car... whereas when I was a kid everyone asked Santa for a new bike, I wonder how many do now?
The secondary issue, is that like motorcycles, bikes are seen as leisure equipment. And I think that's a sad loss of functionality for such a useful tool with great environmental and social benefits.

...but much like a game of othello, minds can be changed. My bikes are used for fairly mundane journeys now - however since riding around, I've noticed one neighbour has started to cycle to the shops and back on a regular bases.

Simply being out and about on your bike, might encourage others to do so.... it did for Ann Mustoe, who cycled around the world.
I went out riding today for a ride around the Suffolk coastal lanes, nice weather, still warm, great tailwinds, and not too bad when it was a headwind actually, threat of rain tomorrow, youd think it would be packed. I think I saw 3 other cyclists in almost 3 hrs of riding, and thats not unusual now, commutes the same I might see a couple of cyclists per ride at best.

I remember rides I did during covid I was seeing so many riders on the road I thought I was on a sportive sometimes.

and certainly the way drivers treat me, makes me feel like Im the only cyclist theyve encountered,as most of them dont seem to have a clue what to do its either must get past now, or sit behind and make me feel reallly uncomfortable
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

"More bus services could come under control of councils under planned law":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvyev943v4o

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

"More bus services could come under control of councils under planned law":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvyev943v4o

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 21 Aug 2024, 9:12am
Jdsk wrote: 16 Aug 2024, 6:37pm
Stevek76 wrote: 15 Aug 2024, 4:18pm How are you fitting in additional local train services, let alone re-opening branch lines or adding stations when there are no free train paths on the major mainlines that can carry those services?

HS2 and NPR are an absolute necessity to expand rail capacity. Major problem of people not listening to experts here.
Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 Aug 2024, 4:42pm Yes, paths. I guess it's maybe a bit technical for lots of people? And if you just call it capacity, they look and see a track which is empty most of the time at any any particular place, and they think empty means unused.
Have the Northern Mayors put anything in writing on their intentions?
It's all frozen as part of the national review of capital... due in "summer 2025".
Screenshot 2024-09-15 at 11.56.41.png

"Opportunity through connectivity. Catalysing economic growth through a Midlands-North West Rail Link":
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... INAL+1.pdf

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

"‘I want them all crushed’: the council poised to ban ‘dangerous’ Lime bikes":
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... lime-bikes

Jonathan
Carlton green
Posts: 4829
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Carlton green »

I’ve not kept in touch with this thread so perhaps this has already been posted. Here’s an interesting BBC article about the HS2 mess-up and why it happened: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98486dzxnzo

It will make uncomfortable reading for HS2 supporters, sorry, but it really is a sad tale of: dishonesty, naff planning and political expediency. Very poorly used money that, instead, could have given many times the benefit on other projects - and those other benefits might even be being enjoyed now as opposed to many years away.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
Posts: 28057
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Jdsk »

Carlton green wrote: 16 Sep 2024, 10:00amHere’s an interesting BBC article about the HS2 mess-up and why it happened: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98486dzxnzo
...
Thanks for that.

An excellent description of the excessive power of Ministers, despite the best attempts of the Select Committee.

And it separates the problems of HS2 as an organisation and project from the rôle of high-speed rail in a national transport strategy.

Jonathan
Carlton green
Posts: 4829
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: National Transport Strategy

Post by Carlton green »

A couple of gems from the article:
Andrew Gilligan was a transport advisor to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak and is a critic of HS2.
Unlike Spain or France or Germany, all the main cities of England are within 200 miles of all the others, apart from Newcastle,” he says.
The extra time you save simply isn't worth the enormous extra expense of building it.
But speed helped attract politicians to it with the promise of a super quick connection between London and Birmingham, with trains racing further north to Leeds and Manchester. London to Manchester would take just over an hour instead of just over two.

A government commissioned study in 2006 had concluded Britain needed greater rail capacity. Launching his report, Sir Rod Eddington said: “My first recommendation to Government is…to improve the capacity and the performance of the existing transport network.
He was lukewarm on speed.
HS2 did bring increased capacity but, as the name demonstrates, it was clearly sold on speed.
My underlining
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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