Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
LittleGreyCat
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Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Readers of this forum may have seen me from time to time wrestling with the future of my 1995 all steel MTB.
[Univega Rover 3.5 https://knowyourbike.com/univega/rover/3-5 ]

On one hand, there is strong support for a total refurb of old steel MTBs to make a bomb proof touring bike.
[Then again, I have a Spa Wayfarer.]

On the other hand:
https://spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s225p4009/S ... ar-8-Speed
or
https://spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s225p4106/S ... eel-Tourer

Cons to current bike:
The frame is battered and lots of bits of surface rust but this doesn't seem to be getting worse over the years.
Fork to frame bearings suspect subject to investigation.
Both wheels are getting thrashed - the allow rims are wearing thin.
Rear hub is freewheel not freehub, and has already been rebuilt once after a broken axle (many years back).
7 speed is a bit old school - I would like 8 or 9 speed on the back and 3 speed on the front.
[Broader range of gears would be good, which an 8/9 speed would allow. Higher top with same bottom. {Don't tell the wife etc.}]
Cantilever brakes work (especially since new pads twice the size of the old ones) but V brakes rock
Aheadset would be nice - many more options
Butterfly bars are tempting me
I am thinking of electrifying (front hub) possibly Swytch but not much point unless the rest of the bike is good long term.
One rear carrier fixing rusted and still has a bit of broken bolt in (but engineered around.]
Front chain rings and rear cluster definitely well worn.


Pros to current bike:
Has it since new in 1995. :D
The hubs seem amazingly good - it rolls better than almost any other bike I have ridden along side.
A mate had a brief go and said "Wow! This is a really fast bike!"
The frame geometry suits me very well.
[More relaxed than most more recent bikes apart from the Spa. Had to sell on a lovely hybrid because the seat angle was just too small whatever I tried. Friend who bought it has a Swytch conversion which works very well.]
Original bottom bracket replaced by cartridge which is holding up really well
I love the saddle (but that can obviously be transferred)
Rear derailleur replaced in last 5 years


So the list of things to do seems to be:

Fork/frame refurb of bearings (assuming fixable).
New wheels including hubs (MTB style with plenty of spokes).
V-brakes
[This also means new levers, obviously.]
New front chain rings.
New front derailleur
New rear derailleur
New rear cluster (8 or 9)
New chain
New cables (again obviously)
New bars (if I can get them to fit the current stem)
Possibly new stem

Another way to look at it I will be keeping the frame, bottom bracket ,pedals, seat post, saddle.
Mudguards, carrier (possibly), bottle cages, tyres and tubes.

I'm trying to get my head around how much a total refurb would cost.
If the bits come to £4-500 and there is quite a bit of work required then a £1k bike looks an interesting option, especially with Spa hand built wheels which start at around £200.

Of the two Spa listed, the more expensive one looks worth the extra £125 in the price but you can go onforever adding this and that.

So what does the team think would be a realistic budget for a complete rebuild and upgrade (leaving out a respray of the frame)?

Alternatively, is there a good quality all steel hybrid or MTB with relaxed frame geometry as an alternative?
I really don't want anything with suspension front or back.
[Hardtail I understand - what is the term for solid front forks?]
scottg
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by scottg »

Option C, splash out for a brand new antique. :)

https://theradavist.com/crust-bikes-alumalith-review/
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Sweep
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by Sweep »

If the frame suits you so well I would very definitely go for it.
Needn't cost you a lot.
I have repurposed 3 or so steel hybrids (hybrids do of course have an MTB heritage) of similar age - all 7 speed - easily changed to 8 and 9 speed.
All were canti-braked, all now V braked.
One of them cost me £21 and came with a wheel with a very nice hub - that wheel is now on another rebuild so the frame was effectively free.
Sweep
PH
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by PH »

I wouldn't spend too much on what was a pretty basic bike to start with. What you seem to be considering is rebuilding to a much higher spec than it originally was. For example, it didn't have the equivalent of a £200 pair of Spa wheels. If you want to do that, fine, your bike and your money, no one should be telling you what to do with either. It's just an understanding that you'll end up with a bike that's cost you considerably more than anyone else is likely to value it at.
What you haven't said is what you intend using this or a new bike for? I see that you're thinking of adding assistance, but then what's the usage?
If it's as a runaround, I'd go for a cheap re-build, maybe with a hub gear, even possibly a drum brake on the rear. You could probably do that for £250 + the front wheel motor and electrics.

it's easy to get drawn into spending money on something that you then don't have a use for. I did exactly that over the last couple of years, a bike that was unusable without spending, then still didn't get used after lavishing a considerable sum on. I can console myself with knowing that parts which would otherwise have remained unused have gone to new homes, it doesn't change that I'd have been financially better of if I'd put them in the bin!
LittleGreyCat
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by LittleGreyCat »

My main use for the bike would be day rides of around 20-30 miles.
Mainly on road but some weeks include bridle ways and some "interesting" bits of forest tracks.

So the riding is really suited to a hybrid, but an old style MTB with road tyres is more or less where the hybrid started.
The Univega is slightly under geared for road riding - I seem to spin out at around 18 mph - and the higher top gear was one of the attractions of the Wayfarer.

I could probably do most of the rides on the Spa Wayfarer but I am come late to drop handlebars and I am not comfortable riding this on rougher surfaces, sand, mud etc.
I could put other bars on the Wayfarer but I like the drops for longer rides on road, say 30-50 miles, and I would like to keep the Wayfarer as is.

So at the moment I have a very worn cheap and cheerful mixed surfaces bike.
I don't ride full MTB territory but if venturing off paved surfaces I like the upright and relaxed stance of my Univega.

I am really wondering about continuing to "make do" with an old bike or to treat myself to a replacement with a similar geometry.
It is Spring, and the web is whispering tempting things in my ear. :lol:
LittleGreyCat
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Just looking around:

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-h ... era/build/
This looks tempting at £599.
I would have to test ride it first, though.

{space reserved for additional bikes}
rareposter
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by rareposter »

There's very little point upgrading something of that age given how basic it was to start with.
Fine if it was a mid-90's top end MTB or an interesting road bike but for a bottom end hybrid, no chance. Keep it as a pub bike or a complete hack for winter commuting.

Specialized have some good deals on their Sirrus range of hybrids at the moment, eg
https://www.specializedconceptstore.co. ... rus-x-3-0/

(there's a cheaper 2.0 model as well, £599)
Nearholmer
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by Nearholmer »

I went through pretty much exactly the same thought-loops last year. I needed to find a more suitable utility bike than the Pashley Parabike I was using, which had many merits but which I could never get “right” because I the frame was really too small - everything had to be adjusted to extremes and it wasn’t efficient to ride.

A friend gave me a 1990 Peugeot hybrid, barely used and dry stored for c25 years, which once cleaned of a ton of sawdust and old oil was a good bet, but ……. While the frame was truly excellent, flawless and a really nice ride, everything else on it was very “low end”, and of course obsolete, which made it very clunky to use (to give you an idea of how “low end”, the crank arms were flat steel bars encased in plastic to make them look like cast aluminium).

After much pricing-up of new bits, scratching of my head, and mumbling to myself, and even some kind souls here giving me components, I concluded that it would be easier, quicker, and crucially cheaper, to buy a brand new hybrid bike in the January sales, which I did.

I gave the Peugeot to the bike charity, and the guy there was sure he could bring it to modern spec without buying anything in, using bits they had in their extensive stash of parts recovered from bikes with damaged frames that they’d stripped.

Still don’t know whether I made the right decision. The new bike is very nice, but it’s aluminium …..

If you do decide to renew, you might struggle to find a modern hybrid with that upright 80s-90s geometry; most follow modern MTB practice and are quite stretched out, which is real pity. Be prepared to fit a shorter stem than is supplied. That Ribble Al is one I looked at, but I found a better bargain in the form of a Pinnacle Lithium 3 for £400.
JohnMorgan
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by JohnMorgan »

You can make a refurb more reasonably costed by using parts from a local ‘bike collective’ or similar? Keep your hubs if needed, and use donated rims/spokes. I can pick up a pair of 26” wheels for a tenner. You might want to consider having the frame shot blasted and powder coated. Mine cost me £50 locally. In any event, good luck!
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offroader
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by offroader »

Ebay is another good source if you're not in a hurry
I actually rather enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

My current Specialized Rockhopper is ebay sourced apart from the wheels, bottom bracket, headset and saddle. It probably cost 100-150 to build with xt drivetrain, fox float forks and Avid hydraulic disks.

However I'd expect to take a couple of months for parts procurement and I've learned from experience not to start assembly until all the bits are in. Otherwise it gets increasingly tempting to nip to the bike shop and buy the last few doodads to complete the project
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geomannie
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by geomannie »

JohnMorgan wrote: 19 Mar 2023, 6:45am You can make a refurb more reasonably costed by using parts from a local ‘bike collective’ or similar? Keep your hubs if needed, and use donated rims/spokes. I can pick up a pair of 26” wheels for a tenner. You might want to consider having the frame shot blasted and powder coated. Mine cost me £50 locally. In any event, good luck!
This is the exactly the point I wanted to make. If you go to your local bike recycling charity you can pick up good parts for a fraction of their new price plus, with a bit of luck, some advice on compatibily.
geomannie
cycle tramp
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by cycle tramp »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 18 Mar 2023, 5:25pm Readers of this forum may have seen me from time to time wrestling with the future of my 1995 all steel MTB.
[Univega Rover 3.5 https://knowyourbike.com/univega/rover/3-5 ]

On one hand, there is strong support for a total refurb of old steel MTBs

Pros to current bike:
Has it since new in 1995. :D
The hubs seem amazingly good - it rolls better than almost any other bike I have ridden along side.
A mate had a brief go and said "Wow! This is a really fast bike!"
The frame geometry suits me very well.
[More relaxed than most more recent bikes apart from the Spa. Had to sell on a lovely hybrid because the seat angle was just too small whatever I tried. Friend who bought it has a Swytch conversion which works very well.]
Original bottom bracket replaced by cartridge which is holding up really well
I love the saddle (but that can obviously be transferred)

I'm trying to get my head around how much a total refurb would cost.
If the bits come to £4-500 and there is quite a bit of work required then a £1k bike looks an interesting option, especially with Spa hand built wheels which start at around £200.

So what does the team think would be a realistic budget for a complete rebuild and upgrade (leaving out a respray of the frame)?
On paper the sensible thing to do would be to buy a new bike. But that presumes two things, the new bike will be as comfortable than this one and suit you better. Neither of which may be true.

I think this is the four or fifth conversation that I've had on this forum about the same thing and my view hasn't changed. If you have a bike that you enjoy riding, that fits you perfectly and is comfortable then cherish it. There may be newer bikes out in the shops, there may be better equipment bicycles, but if you don't enjoy riding them, if they are uncomfortable, and if they do not fit, then they are not worth your money.

Personally I would rebuild the bike that you enjoy riding, that you find comfortable and fits you. Yes, due to the economies of scale it will cost more. However building your own bike will introduce you to new experiences and every time you park up, you can think 'I built that - I know every nut and bolt of that bike' and unless you've gone through that process you will not know that satisfaction. Anyone can buy a bike...

I would get the threaded headset serviced, and if you wanted to use an aheadset stem, then use a stem converter.
To save money on chainrings - I'd simply purchase a triple chainset from SPA cycles.
Yes, hand built wheels are expensive, however they are worth it. The last four of my builds featured hand built wheels. I find hand-built wheels stronger and truer than off the shelf wheels.

Personally, if I was using a wheel with 8 or 9 sprockets, then not only would I use a freehub, but have one with a disc brake mount and I would go all the way and get a disc brake mount (and strengthening brace) wielded onto the frame and get the frame resprayed. Yes it's something you've not considered and will add expensive to the build, but your rear wheel rim will last longer and you'll have more predictable performance in muddy or wet conditions (however depending on some people's views you may not have a greater braking performance in the dry (ooohh... they'll be emails about that one).

At this point you might want to Google 'converted univega bicycle' there's some interesting projects out there on the web
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Sweep
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by Sweep »

rareposter wrote: 18 Mar 2023, 9:05pm There's very little point upgrading something of that age given how basic it was to start with.
Fine if it was a mid-90's top end MTB or an interesting road bike but for a bottom end hybrid, no chance. Keep it as a pub bike or a complete hack for winter commuting.

Specialized have some good deals on their Sirrus range of hybrids at the moment, eg
https://www.specializedconceptstore.co. ... rus-x-3-0/

(there's a cheaper 2.0 model as well, £599)
second person who has essentially made this point - I disagree - who cares whether the resultant bike is thought top-end or not or what its value might be to others?
If it ends up looking like not a lot while riding fine all the better - less nickable.
I have built up a few late 90s steel hybrids - one cost me £21. Chap who sold it to me (didn't know much about bikes) told me he was about to send it to the tip.
That one was built to be a dupe in specs of my hewitt as a tough tourer but actually turned out more fit for that purpose than the hewitt (hewitt a very nice bike kept for day rides) for various reasons.
Yep that £21 bike had £200 (at today's prices) Spa wheels added but the bike and I feel the benefit of them and the wheels and the bits I added can of course be moved to other frames if I ever needed to. Other bits sourced from wherever didn't cost that much.
So am with cycletramp - what's not to like about riding/improving a bike/frame you really like the feel of?
And maybe I'm perverse but I actually get an extra zing in my ride from the thought that other/some folk might not think much of the thing between my legs or pooh poo it for supposedly being a bit of a mish-mash.
Sweep
LittleGreyCat
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Thanks for all the interesting posts so far - which do seem to reflect the pull between new and refurb that I am feeling at the moment.

At the risk of alienating some dedicated bike fettlers, I do have a limited spare time budget and an awful lot of other things with claims on it.

The suggestions of trawling second hand bike parts and rebuilding over many months, and the joy of the achievement, may be true but at the moment they are not something I can contemplate.

I will note that I would not consider a new bike which doesn't have a very similar frame geometry to my Univega.
[Accepting that I would look at "virtual" cross bar given that most are sloping these days.]
That was one of the reasons that after research I bought the Spa Wayfarer as a tourer.
This also explains the attraction of a new bike built around a steel Spa touring frame.
Newer geometries don't seem to suit me - note the (Scott) hybrid I had to part with very reluctantly purely because of frame geometry.
cycle tramp
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Re: Total refurb of 1995 MTB or new bike?

Post by cycle tramp »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 1:26pm
At the risk of alienating some dedicated bike fettlers, I do have a limited spare time budget and an awful lot of other things with claims on it.

The suggestions of trawling second hand bike parts and rebuilding over many months, and the joy of the achievement, may be true but at the moment they are not something I can contemplate.
Not at all. Time, more than money is the reason why alot of home projects never get finished*
..the middle way between the two points is just do enough to keep the univega running and get another bike - that way, you'll not lose the univega. Go for the hand-built wheels, but given the trips you'll be undertaking perhaps consider a 1 x 9 transmission, and loose the front derailleur and multiple chainrings. As for the other stuff, change as and when you have the time and the parts.

(*I think on my writing desk I have five board game designs (2 of which are battle strategy games) 20 or so half finished greeting cards, 15 bicycle associated t-shirt designs, and several book ideas I've been meaning to write).
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