Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

DaveReading
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by DaveReading »

Carlton green wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 11:09amMotorist rings up and says “I nearly hit eyz”, that actually means: I avoided this hazard (‘cause I’m watching what I’m doing)
On the other hand it could well just be another way of saying "Luckily, although I was driving too fast for the conditions, I managed to stop (or swerve) before I hit a cyclist who was minding his/her own business".

We simply don't know where on the skill/judgement/luck continuum the incidents were.
mattheus
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

DaveReading wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 1:49pm
Carlton green wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 11:09amMotorist rings up and says “I nearly hit eyz”, that actually means: I avoided this hazard (‘cause I’m watching what I’m doing)
On the other hand it could well just be another way of saying "Luckily, although I was driving too fast for the conditions, I managed to stop (or swerve) before I hit a cyclist who was minding his/her own business".

We simply don't know where on the skill/judgement/luck continuum the incidents were.
I agree - we don't know.

Did the cyclist's blog mention any near misses?
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Vorpal »

Cowsham wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 12:18pm
Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 12:06pm

At the very least, they don't seem to understand that the cyclist has the right to be there.
Yes the police did! They didn't stop the cyclist continuing his ride.

Would you as a Manx police woman have spoken to the cyclist at all ? How would you have felt if he'd been hit by a not so concerned or careful motorist after receiving phone calls by concerned drivers ?
I thought it was pretty clear that I meant the *drivers* don't seem to understand the cyclist's right to be there.

I'm obviously not a Manx police officer. That said, I don't think it was necessarily inappropriate to investigate, observe the state of the cyclist and conditions. Speak to him? I don't know. Just to tell him that people had been calling to report him doesn't seem like it adds any value. Even telling him to be careful in the fog seems too general to be helpful.

I'd rather talk to the people that called to report him to find why they think the cyclist is a problem.
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Carlton green
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Carlton green »

I wonder how serving and retired Police Officers would or do view this case? Perhaps they say that knocking on someone’s door to tell them that a loved one is either in Hospital or even dead really isn’t a very nice task … and then there’s all of the paperwork too, and will there be an inquest? The Police are both a response force and an event (mostly crime) prevention force, in response mode their interest is in attending a reported hazard - or rather someone reported as being at perceived risk - and from there to make their own reasoned judgements.

Was the cyclist a hazard? Were motorists driving too fast? Was the situation really unsafe? Should Manx drivers hold themselves to better standards? Who knows and to be frank all of that is academic when someone’s having to break bad news to a wife or partner.

As someone above said near miss data and events are a form of gold, by taking notice of reported near misses - and ones in our own lives too - we change what we’re doing and avoid calamity.
Last edited by Carlton green on 22 Mar 2023, 5:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 2:39pm
Cowsham wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 12:18pm
Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 12:06pm

At the very least, they don't seem to understand that the cyclist has the right to be there.
Yes the police did! They didn't stop the cyclist continuing his ride.

Would you as a Manx police woman have spoken to the cyclist at all ? How would you have felt if he'd been hit by a not so concerned or careful motorist after receiving phone calls by concerned drivers ?
I thought it was pretty clear that I meant the *drivers* don't seem to understand the cyclist's right to be there.

No all 4 of your paragraphs are in the context of the police response to the callers.
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Vorpal »

Cowsham wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 4:22pm
No all 4 of your paragraphs are in the context of the police response to the callers.
Maybe a slightly larger excerpt of the relevant bit will help:
Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 12:06pm the drivers may have been driving too fast for conditions or lack awareness. At the very least, they don't seem to understand that the cyclist has the right to be there,
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

Vorpal wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 8:32am
Cowsham wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 4:22pm
No all 4 of your paragraphs are in the context of the police response to the callers.
Maybe a slightly larger excerpt of the relevant bit will help:
Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 12:06pm the drivers may have been driving too fast for conditions or lack awareness. At the very least, they don't seem to understand that the cyclist has the right to be there,
Not buying that sorry
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Vorpal »

Cowsham wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 9:10am

Not buying that sorry
Your choice.

I know what I meant.
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

Vorpal wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 9:17am
Cowsham wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 9:10am

Not buying that sorry
Your choice.

I know what I meant.
I don't -- but the worse thing is that you wouldn't speak to the cyclist to warn him of the dangers he's putting himself in.
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Cowsham
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

I think the one thing we can agree on is to close the road completely in those conditions, that means to everyone except local access.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Mike Sales »

This cyclist, who was doing everything advised to protect himself, was nevertheless stopped three times to try to persuade him not to ride. The police even thought it necessary to use blues and twos!
Would it not have been more reasonable to stop cars entering the foggy mountain road in order to advise them that in the conditions it would be best to observe the advice "drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear". Obeying this would remove danger to the cyclist, the drivers and their passengers and any others up there.
Failure to observe the rule often causes accidents and makes the roads more dangerous than they need be, especially for the vulnerable road user. It is emphasised far too seldom by those paid to make the roads safer.
Do they feel that it would be too difficult to persuade drivers slow down a little?
Last edited by Mike Sales on 23 Mar 2023, 11:05am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

Cowsham wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 10:01am I think the one thing we can agree on is to close the road completely in those conditions, that means to everyone except local access.
And then a "local access" local cyclist would get mown down by a local driving at speed cos she/he didn't expect anyone else to be on the road!

<not a serious reply ... but then I don't believe Cowsham thinks they will ever close the road due to fog ... >
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Cowsham
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

Mike Sales wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 10:22am This cyclist, who was doing everything advised to protect himself, was nevertheless stopped three times to try to persuade him not to ride. The police even thought it necessary to use blues and twos!
Would it not have been more reasonable to stop cars entering the foggy mountain road in order to advise them that in the conditions it would be best to observe the advice "drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear". Obeying this would remove danger to the cyclist, the drivers and their passengers and any others up there.
Failure to observe the rule often causes accidents and makes the roads more dangerous than they need be, especially for the vulnerable road user. It is emphasised far too seldom by those paid to make the roads safer.
Do they feel that it would be too difficult to persuade drivers slow down a little?
To start with the laws of the uk don't apply on the IOM they have their own.

They close it regularly for all sorts of reasons but Manannans cloak can render visibility at only a few metres in a very short period of time so distances you might see on his video might not have been what was there a few minuits earlier. It's a dangerous road in normal conditions, I don't bother with it unless absolutely necessary.

My motorcycle mates wanted to do the tt circuit since it was their first time there. I warned them sternly about the dangers and to take it easy before I took them round. Glad to say they behaved themselves but many other bikers passed us at frightening speeds. There's no speed limit.

I much prefer the mountain trails on a mountain bike -- I'll post some photos and links to videos I made while up there. Missed my bicycle when over on motorbike as you can access so much more.

Definitely wouldn't be on the A18 with a bicycle, that would be the same as being on the Autobahn in Germany. --- In thick fog ???

I don't know how you'd be treated on the island if you didn't take the police advice and then got hurt up there. It's a funny wee place so I'd not chance something like that. Apart from that the police are very kind and helpful but don't get on the wrong side of them cos they may have powers you weren't expecting. I'm only a visitor myself about 3 times a year so I respect their jurisdiction.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Mike Sales »

Cowsham wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 12:16pm
To start with the laws of the uk don't apply on the IOM they have their own.

I am afraid that the laws of physics do apply. I was not refererencing the law, merely the commonsense advice given in the HC.
Do you not think that, short of closing the road, stopping and advising drivers that being able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear is worthwhile? Are they incorrigible?
I would hope that any injured road user gets the same compassionate treatment on the IoM as in the UK, even if they were a driver at double the posted limit.
Clearly this cyclist was not breaking any law: he was able to continue. The jurisdiction does not arise.
You may think that riding this road is inadvisible because of the way motorists behave. Fair enough. Many people see cycling on any road as too dangerous. I think that this is a great pity and that we should try to reduce road danger. Getting drivers to follow p.126 would be a good start.
The police saw the problem as the presence of the cyclist, not the dangerous speed of the drivers.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 23 Mar 2023, 12:55pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jdsk
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Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Jdsk »

Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 2:39pmI thought it was pretty clear that I meant the *drivers* don't seem to understand the cyclist's right to be there.
Vorpal wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 2:39pmI'd rather talk to the people that called to report him to find why they think the cyclist is a problem.
The sources that I can find are the cyclist's tweets and blog and the police's tweets. Are there others?

How can we know that the drivers didn't understand the cyclist's rights or that they thought that he was a problem?

Thanks

Jonathan
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