Call for a national cycling ban.

Pete Owens
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Pete Owens »

Carlton green wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 8:09am
Pete Owens wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 2:11am
Ron wrote: 24 Mar 2023, 4:50pm The National Association for the Blind of the UK (NFBUK) is putting out a call to Government to ban cycling in the streets.
Quite the opposite - they are calling for cyclists to be banned from the pavements - thus required to cycle in the street. A situation that used to be taken for granted until local authorities started to put up the silly blue signs.
The NFBUK have clarified what they are seeking see JDSK below. My bold. To my mind they appear to be self oriented rather than socially oriented, well that or that they have not understood and chosen their words sufficiently well.
Indeed - and in no way can that be interpreted as seeking to ban cycling in the streets as implied by the OP.
Jdsk wrote: 24 Mar 2023, 8:04pm Thank you for your email.

The article that you are referring to is a historic document which should read '7. Put an end to shared spaces, clutter, pavement parking & cycling on our pavements allowing us to move around without fear of accident or death.'
There are already laws in place regarding cycling in places that only pedestrians are allowed in.
Well that used to be the case. The law used to be clear that pavements were exclusively for pedestrians and that vehicles (including cycles) were restricted to the carriageways. (though toddlers on barbie bikes may have been tolerated due to being under the age of criminal responsibility). Unfortunately this is becoming les and less clear. Local authorities have been increasingly erecting blue signs to override that law and encourage adult cyclists to ride on pavements.
Mike_Ayling
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Mike_Ayling »

When I was younger I used to participate in a tandem riding programme with vision impaired people.
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Phil Fouracre »

What is wrong with people? What a ridiculous thread title, and, people on here complain about others twisting the truth.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
Carlton green
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Carlton green »

Phil Fouracre wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 8:06am What is wrong with people? What a ridiculous thread title, and, people on here complain about others twisting the truth.

What is being asked for is quite clear and it includes an end to shared spaces. As far as I’m concerned shared spaces are necessary and their responsible use is the overwhelming the norm; and there are laws in place for when use is not responsible.

I would point out that pushing cyclists out of shared spaces and onto roads often prevents us from moving around without fear of accident or death - one rule for some an another for others? Of course the root issue here - and for both groups - is policing and space to move safely within.
The article that you are referring to is a historic document which should read '7. Put an end to shared spaces, clutter, pavement parking & cycling on our pavements allowing us to move around without fear of accident or death.'
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by mattheus »

Phil Fouracre wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 8:06am What is wrong with people? What a ridiculous thread title, and, people on here complain about others twisting the truth.
Think I agree. It's obvious that it was just atrocious wording in the original statement (this lot clearly aren't rocket scientists. Or great proof readers ... )

I'm not a fan of the NFB.. whatever they're called ... but this deliberate clickbait misreading is just dumb.
Jdsk
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Jdsk »

I've written to Cycling UK.

Jonathan
qwerty360
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by qwerty360 »

The big issue with all of this is the idea that NFBUK are a significant representative for the Blind (or anyone else for that matter).

Per Charities Commission records, last filing year (2022) they were approximately the same size as Waltham Forest Blind Association or a rounding error on national charities like RNIB or the Guide Dogs Assocation.

I expect the only reason any of us have even heard of them is their name implies they are bigger than they are and they were happy to make soundbites about the evils of cycling to major newspapers...



Of course one result of this is probably that they don't have enough volunteers to even proofread their publications...

Great for various parties who want to muddy the water, as they are making the argument about relatively minor issues from what is effectively a small single issues campaign group while ignoring more complex (read, expensive) issues from the experts (RNIB etc)

(Similar to charities claiming to be about head injuries in general managing to spend 90% of budget pushing cycle helmets (1% of injuries at the time...))
Bonefishblues
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Bonefishblues »

Carlton green wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 8:09am
To my mind they appear to be self oriented rather than socially oriented, well that or that they have not understood and chosen their words sufficiently well.
National Federation of the Blind of the UK is a national membership organisation of blind and partially sighted people working and campaigning on behalf of others in the UK with similar difficulties.

Says the Charity on its homepage. That's their charitable purpose, so it's not a surprise to find it acting in line with this.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Bonefishblues »

mattheus wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 10:03am It's obvious that it was just atrocious wording in the original statement (this lot clearly aren't rocket scientists. Or great proof readers ... )

I'm not a fan of the NFB.. whatever they're called ... but this deliberate clickbait misreading is just dumb.
I think that a charity with this purpose would have little need for their specialism. Unless you're implying that they are in some way mentally deficient?

It occurs to me that proof reading might present particular difficulties for some, based on nothing more than my speculation that their employees might in some/many cases be from the community whose interests they serve.
mattheus
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by mattheus »

Bonefishblues wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 2:40pm
mattheus wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 10:03am It's obvious that it was just atrocious wording in the original statement (this lot clearly aren't rocket scientists. Or great proof readers ... )

I'm not a fan of the NFB.. whatever they're called ... but this deliberate clickbait misreading is just dumb.
I think that a charity with this purpose would have little need for their specialism. Unless you're implying that they are in some way mentally deficient?
Yes I agree that they shouldn't need - and most likely do not employ - many rocket scientists.
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plancashire
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by plancashire »

In Germany a fairly common arrangement is separated sharing, where cycling is one side of a line and walking the other. The cycle part is often coloured red and sometimes the edge is marked with a distinct bumpy cobblestone. (Asphalt is rarely used on footways in town.) The sign for this is round blue with a bike and person separated by a vertical blue line. A horizontal line indicates a completely shared space. There's also the pure pedestrian blue sign but with "Fahrrad frei" in white underneath. In this case we are supposed to cycle with attention to pedestrians, and that would mean slowly when there are many about.

The ADFC (German cycling club) views shared spaces and cycle tracks away from the road as problematic because drivers do not see the cyclists near junctions, plus there's the conflict with pedestrians. We have a special case here in Düsseldorf right now with a space that has a cycle way through the middle but little to warn pedestrians staring at their phones to look out.

We have the usual difficulties with bus stops here too.

Maybe we should treat this as another reason to improve cycling infrastructure in UK?
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton M3 and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
mattheus
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by mattheus »

qwerty360 wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 2:06pm The big issue with all of this is the idea that NFBUK are a significant representative for the Blind (or anyone else for that matter).
Per Charities Commission records, last filing year (2022) they were approximately the same size as Waltham Forest Blind Association or a rounding error on national charities like RNIB or the Guide Dogs Assocation.

I expect the only reason any of us have even heard of them is their name implies they are bigger than they are and they were happy to make soundbites about the evils of cycling to major newspapers...

Of course one result of this is probably that they don't have enough volunteers to even proofread their publications...
Great for various parties who want to muddy the water, as they are making the argument about relatively minor issues from what is effectively a small single issues campaign group while ignoring more complex (read, expensive) issues from the experts (RNIB etc)

(Similar to charities claiming to be about head injuries in general managing to spend 90% of budget pushing cycle helmets (1% of injuries at the time...))
Yup.

Sad, isn't it? :- /
Bonefishblues
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Bonefishblues »

mattheus wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 8:59am
qwerty360 wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 2:06pm The big issue with all of this is the idea that NFBUK are a significant representative for the Blind (or anyone else for that matter).
Per Charities Commission records, last filing year (2022) they were approximately the same size as Waltham Forest Blind Association or a rounding error on national charities like RNIB or the Guide Dogs Assocation.

I expect the only reason any of us have even heard of them is their name implies they are bigger than they are and they were happy to make soundbites about the evils of cycling to major newspapers...

Of course one result of this is probably that they don't have enough volunteers to even proofread their publications...
Great for various parties who want to muddy the water, as they are making the argument about relatively minor issues from what is effectively a small single issues campaign group while ignoring more complex (read, expensive) issues from the experts (RNIB etc)

(Similar to charities claiming to be about head injuries in general managing to spend 90% of budget pushing cycle helmets (1% of injuries at the time...))
Yup.

Sad, isn't it? :- /
What might work is for a national cycling charity to reach out to them and work collaboratively to produce better solutions for all.
mattheus
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by mattheus »

Bonefishblues wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 10:17am What might work is for a national cycling charity to reach out to them and work collaboratively to produce better solutions for all.
The best way to produce better solutions for all would be to work with the RNIB.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Call for a national cycling ban.

Post by Bonefishblues »

mattheus wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 10:23am
Bonefishblues wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 10:17am What might work is for a national cycling charity to reach out to them and work collaboratively to produce better solutions for all.
The best way to produce better solutions for all would be to work with the RNIB.
Yes I agree

I don't know why coalitions/collaborative working don't work (or aren't attempted?) - or maybe this thread is an indication as to why?
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