Cycling UK Forum

Apparently some if not all EVs have a phone card in them so the cars software can be updated by the manufacturer. Some are embedded so you cant remove them. Several newspaper articles point out that these devices can record your driving and even overhear and spy on your conversation. There is fear of a wave of cheap Chinese EVs arriving here with such devices installed. Big Brother will be watching you....

Al

softlips wrote: ↑5 Aug 2023, 5:03pm

mig wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 1:03pm i'd think that cheaper overnight rates for electricity would be a thing of the past if/when there are a significant amount of vehicles being charged ready for the morning.

many houses have 2 or more vehicles. able to charge them all ready for the morning?

How often would they all want to charge all at once? Probably never. I know a few households with 3 EVs and many with 2. I did ask a friend who has and EV as does his wife and son how they managed to charge as I know they only have one charge point. He said it had never been an issue each of them only charges once a week or less.

do they travel far each day?

al_yrpal wrote: ↑7 Aug 2023, 10:19am Apparently some if not all EVs have a phone card in them so the cars software can be updated by the manufacturer. Some are embedded so you cant remove them. Several newspaper articles point out that these devices can record your driving and even overhear and spy on your conversation. There is fear of a wave of cheap Chinese EVs arriving here with such devices installed. Big Brother will be watching you....

Al

It's not the thought uppermost in people's minds when they see what good value an MG is. Anything Chinese branded, whether a Huawei phone or £2 bluetooth keyfob tracker sends data back home.

Besides, it appears that sooner or later almost all of most people's movements, consumption habits and other behaviour will be tracked very comprehensively, by all governments.

Presently banks don't know exactly what you're buying but if a "Britcoin" CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency) is introduced, it's likely your digital biometrics will be used to confirm the purchase. Which is great if you believe this will kill underage drinking and prevent criminals from spending their loot, but it's likely the criminal fraternity have much better access to digital 'backdoors' that law-abiding citizens.

In the name of convenience, we hand over more and more of what no so long ago would have been regarded as private. So long as there are proper safeguards in place then fine, at least until something in the electronic chain throws a flag and cancels someone's life.

Well maybe. But certainly all new cars can send and receive data, regardless of power source or place of manufacture. Usually this is connected with maintenance schedules, but the potential is there for information of eg speeding, which is one reason the usual suspects are getting upset.

cycle tramp wrote: ↑1 Apr 2023, 8:07pm
However I don't drive a ev. That's not to think they're not a good idea, but given the choice I'd rather* have a jet turbine engine which powers an in board generator which then feeds to an electric motor in each wheel...
We're not there yet..

fiddling around on paper ages ago before lithium was even mainstream, I toyed with the idea of something similar. Knowing that the energy to keep moving is less than to accelerate a car like mass, I figured with a small light enough car, like a Reliant Robin, you'd only need around 10 hp for urban road speeds, and a generator battery motor set admittedly adding another 200 Kg to give the extra oompth for acceleration. Weren't some hybrid cars actually built around the same concept of a lower powered engine running constantly to recharge batteries?


Bigger question is, will the UK gonna adopt euro 7/VII standards in time, then we will have that extra cost. I suspect the overall plan is essentially to make it too expensive for jo bloggs to afford a private motor vehicle full stop.

In the name of convenience, we hand over more and more of what no so long ago would have been regarded as private. So long as there are proper safeguards in place then fine, at least until something in the electronic chain throws a flag and cancels someone's life.

and we all were hacked, well all of us registered to vote. What's wrong about that is they didn't even notice the electoral roll was hacked for a year. It does feel like the UK has become the testing ground for all sorts of chicanery before the rest of the western world decides.

Diesel might hang around longer as HGVs and buses use it, but AIUI the flow rate from those pumps is too high for cars and vans, so not much good.

ages ago when I first had a diesel car I found a real cheap back street place, frequented by the London black cabs. The chap warned me, but first time, splosh!!! But he sold his smelly stuff for around 10 p less a gallon than any other London stop and it wasn't far off my usual route so I returned whenever I was crossing London.

People keep returning to the tyre and brake wear being worse for EVs. Yes, but then vans, buses and lorries must be even worse for wear. But it's the acceleration/braking cycle that causes most wear, not constant speed driving. So the combination of reducing overall vehicle numbers combined with better management will reduce both wear particles and exhaust pollution. Get people to think in terms of working within a shorter distance of home. Get employers to think in terms of keeping people longer by not trying to restrict their wages etc so they move elsewhere for promotion. Joined up thinking over why we travel, how we travel, and how to make that travel the least damaging to all.

I was offered more than the new price for my 57 plate Land Rover 90.

Surely Land Rovers are very special cases. They were after all the very best 4 x 4 by far until modern day thinking spoiled them.

He also said that a lot of existing multi story car parks were built prior to the 1970s guidance/standard.

me thinks that's why one or two have lower height restrictions even when there isn't any low beams inside, as typically it's the range rover vogue pimp mobiles, and large vans that weigh over 2 tonnes even without batteries. Of course some "newer" multi storey carparks were built down to such a price and to maximise occupancy so have really low heights that you even have to watch your head walking around them.

solar panels and a Tesla Powerwall battery.

is that on the car roof?

he didn't even indicate just pulled off to the right at a lane. Now if I'd overtaken him

weren't you watching which way the straw pointed?

we should be asking why cars are scrapped when as young as they are

did anyone notice how as car prices started to fall relative to wages, cost of maintenance rose because the parts became more expensive. I think the manufacturers as they designed parts to be more unique and harder to "third party" knew they could lower the headline cost of a car relative, and recap any lost profit through aftersales. The bottom line is business wants a steady stream of profit, they don't want to sell stuff that lasts for 40 plus years as where is their continued revenue, so we're now at a point as the market is largely fulfilled and is now replacement not first time buyers, where the business needs to make their wares short lived. consume consume consume.

Airlines have had restrictions on carrying batteries for several years now

I've often wondered, what is their procedure in the event of a fire. Do they flush a burning battery down a loo? You can't land a plane from 40,000 feet in 30 seconds.

We’re nearly all sucked into that trap whereas without such a silly housing market we’d have time and money to invest in more productive things.

End stamp duty, maybe even for millionaire mansions, get the revenue in different ways, because stamp duty on a "normal" priced property is just another dis-incentive to move along with legal fees and estate agent fees which add up to several thousands now, plus on a mortgage, any remortgage costs, and you still have moving costs.

But isn't part of the issue on property that the government decided to make other investments less attractive so people diverged into bricks and mortar in a big way. When banks and most stocks weren't reliably offering inflation plus growth year on year, hardly surprising people hunted for the next gold rush.

ANTONISH wrote: ↑28 Jul 2023, 5:35pm

TrevA wrote: ↑28 Jul 2023, 10:36am

ANTONISH wrote: ↑28 Jul 2023, 9:35am

How would we define unnecessary ? - and how would we "structure" society in order to eliminate the unnecessary travel?

Encourage homeworking. My daughter has been working from home since the start of lockdown. She can do her job perfectly well without having to go into the office, but has now been told she must be in the office for 40% of her time. No real reason for this, she doesn’t work with any of her office co-workers, her team is spread around the country, so contact is by phone and email.

I did the same in the 3 years before I retired. I used to go into the office once every 2 months. Luckily, my organisation was a bit more forward thinking.

Shop local - shops and services should be within walking or cycling distance, so you don’t have to travel to get to them.

Not all jobs, not even the majority can be worked from home - "shops and services" how does that work without staff being present?
Not to mention train drivers, garage mechanics, bus drivers, refuse collectors, warehouse workers, supermarket shelf stackers, etc
I have always found it irritating when work is assumed to be in an office.

One problem with jobs can be done from home is that someone else could do the job from home in a much lower cost country (or from an office there). Why pay someone UK rates working from home if someone else could do the same job remotely but in the Philippines or Romania, but for much less?

harriedgary wrote: ↑9 Aug 2023, 4:55pm I suspect the overall plan is essentially to make it too expensive for jo bloggs to afford a private motor vehicle full stop.

Whose plan?

harriedgary wrote: ↑9 Aug 2023, 6:03pm People keep returning to the tyre and brake wear being worse for EVs. Yes, but then vans, buses and lorries must be even worse for wear. But it's the acceleration/braking cycle that causes most wear, not constant speed driving. So the combination of reducing overall vehicle numbers combined with better management will reduce both wear particles and exhaust pollution.

Certainly tyre particulates, but regenerative braking reduces those from brakes. Even so, studies suggest particulate emissions (at the point of use) from EVs are of a similar order to those of ICEvs.

harriedgary wrote: ↑9 Aug 2023, 6:03pm

Biospace wrote: ↑7 Aug 2023, 4:16pm In the name of convenience...

Diesel might...

Only 1 of your 9 quotes was mine, but it could appear they all are without attributing the other 8.

Biospace wrote: ↑10 Aug 2023, 1:10pm Certainly tyre particulates, but regenerative braking reduces those from brakes. Even so, studies suggest particulate emissions (at the point of use) from EVs are of a similar order to those of ICEvs.

Does this refer to tyre particulates or total particulates? Reference?

EVs provoke much "whataboutery" and binary opinions. I try not to play these unproductive games, but, if forced to, whilst appreciating the risk I play of contributing nothing of value, I would say that, if my choice was between making the journeys I make by car anyway, doing those journeys using my current petrol Fiat Panda from 2004, or a Nissan Leaf from 2022... I would use the Panda I already have, for reasons of affordability. However, if all else was equal, and I was weighing up the imaginary ICE car I have in one hand, and the imaginary EV car I have in my other hand, I would, without hesitation, say goodbye to the ICE car and stick with the EV. Until we reach equality of access, i.e. affordability of 2nd hand EVs, I'm not sure that other people like me will switch.
And anyway, will continue to use the bike for local errands and journeys for fun fitness and to save money

Dan79 wrote: ↑11 Aug 2023, 12:02am EVs provoke much "whataboutery" and binary opinions. I try not to play these unproductive games, but, if forced to, whilst appreciating the risk I play of contributing nothing of value, I would say that, if my choice was between making the journeys I make by car anyway, doing those journeys using my current petrol Fiat Panda from 2004, or a Nissan Leaf from 2022... I would use the Panda I already have, for reasons of affordability. However, if all else was equal, and I was weighing up the imaginary ICE car I have in one hand, and the imaginary EV car I have in my other hand, I would, without hesitation, say goodbye to the ICE car and stick with the EV. Until we reach equality of access, i.e. affordability of 2nd hand EVs, I'm not sure that other people like me will switch.
And anyway, will continue to use the bike for local errands and journeys for fun fitness and to save money

Isn’t that really a choice between an old, small and un-powerful car versus a modern, large and powerful car? It’s surely not a lot to do with engine type and fuel.

As a green choice the old Panda is arguably greener than the modern Nissan. The Panda is lighter, quite fuel efficient, uses little road space has low residual value in price but also CO2 footprint. The Nissan, much as I think it a relative good BEV is heavy, over powered, substantial sized, and substantial CO2 footprint. The Nissan has a smaller refuel range than the Panda and what batteries it has aren’t necessarily the best use of scarce materials. Fiscally there might well be better green ways to invest the price of the Nissan, is greenwashing in process? I think so.

To my mind there’s a case for BEV’s really being electric bikes and electric cargo bikes rather than large cars, arguably the best use of resources is getting vehicles to be as small as is practical rather than as big as can be sold to them. Anyone for a Tesla four by four? It’s green you know, battery powered, just two tons in weight and a very necessary 0 - 60 mph time of 3.5 seconds . Price? A very reasonable £45 - 60k, the perfect investment for anyone who’s really concerned for the planet .
https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/modely
https://www.carwow.co.uk/tesla/model-y#gref

al_yrpal wrote: ↑7 Aug 2023, 10:19am Apparently some if not all EVs have a phone card in them so the cars software can be updated by the manufacturer. Some are embedded so you cant remove them. Several newspaper articles point out that these devices can record your driving and even overhear and spy on your conversation. There is fear of a wave of cheap Chinese EVs arriving here with such devices installed. Big Brother will be watching you....

Al

The SIM in mine seems to be purely for stuff like satnav, Spotify and so on (and spying on me, of course). And I have to pay a tenner a month for that privilege. When it wants to download software updates it insists I connect to wifi. Which IMHO is taking the ****.

Dan79 wrote: ↑11 Aug 2023, 12:02am EVs provoke much "whataboutery" and binary opinions.
...

It's a pity, and for me it has spoilt the last two threads on the subject. As well as the whataboutery there's a vast amount of thread diversion and a spectacular array of logical fallacies.

But different opinions are fine. : - )

Jonathan

Carlton green wrote: ↑11 Aug 2023, 6:18am

Dan79 wrote: ↑11 Aug 2023, 12:02am EVs provoke much "whataboutery" and binary opinions. I try not to play these unproductive games, but, if forced to, whilst appreciating the risk I play of contributing nothing of value, I would say that, if my choice was between making the journeys I make by car anyway, doing those journeys using my current petrol Fiat Panda from 2004, or a Nissan Leaf from 2022... I would use the Panda I already have, for reasons of affordability. However, if all else was equal, and I was weighing up the imaginary ICE car I have in one hand, and the imaginary EV car I have in my other hand, I would, without hesitation, say goodbye to the ICE car and stick with the EV. Until we reach equality of access, i.e. affordability of 2nd hand EVs, I'm not sure that other people like me will switch.
And anyway, will continue to use the bike for local errands and journeys for fun fitness and to save money

Isn’t that really a choice between an old, small and un-powerful car versus a modern, large and powerful car? It’s surely not a lot to do with engine type and fuel.

As a green choice the old Panda is arguably greener than the modern Nissan. The Panda is lighter, quite fuel efficient, uses little road space has low residual value in price but also CO2 footprint. The Nissan, much as I think it a relative good BEV is heavy, over powered, substantial sized, and substantial CO2 footprint. The Nissan has a smaller refuel range than the Panda and what batteries it has aren’t necessarily the best use of scarce materials. Fiscally there might well be better green ways to invest the price of the Nissan, is greenwashing in process? I think so.

To my mind there’s a case for BEV’s really being electric bikes and electric cargo bikes rather than large cars, arguably the best use of resources is getting vehicles to be as small as is practical rather than as big as can be sold to them. Anyone for a Tesla four by four? It’s green you know, battery powered, just two tons in weight and a very necessary 0 - 60 mph time of 3.5 seconds . Price? A very reasonable £45 - 60k, the perfect investment for anyone who’s really concerned for the planet .
https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/modely
https://www.carwow.co.uk/tesla/model-y#gref

Gosh. Yes. This, this and this. Electric cars, regardless of model, are greenwashing. But at the same time they are less un-green than other cars. It strikes me there's a comparison to be made with cigarettes and vapes; yes, vapes are less bad for you and those around you than cigarettes, but they're still bad and they're also extending the market for "inhalables" – and we seem to look at these markets ("inhalables" and "drivables") from the users' point of view exclusively, not considering the wider picture.