This is the sort of question where I'll typically reach for "I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that"...
Pete.
This is the sort of question where I'll typically reach for "I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that"...
Nearholmer wrote: ↑4 Dec 2023, 9:55pm What meaning is being assigned to the term “common sense” in this debate?
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less. ' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.
In any debate or discussion, "common sense" generally means, "Wot I fink". It's generally not commonly thought in practice (except, perhaps, in one's bubble or the favourite pub) and often far from sensible when closely examined or tested for coherence, logic or some other indication of practical value likely to serve the successful achievement of one's intents.Nearholmer wrote: ↑4 Dec 2023, 9:55pm What meaning is being assigned to the term “common sense” in this debate?
I think you're right. I would be very doubtful if any studies would accurately refect the type of riding that do and the environment in which I do it...
Indeed. Except possibly when it is said by a politician or polemicist, in which case it is usually a conscious rhetorical technique aimed at persuading the listener that only an idiot or a person on the outer fringes of society could disagree with whatever proposition is being put forward.In any debate or discussion, "common sense" generally means, "Wot I fink".
Plato or Aristotle?
That a model doesn't tell you for sure what's best for you isn't the same as being useless for general policy advice. For example, wildebeest are safer if they migrate in herds, but that doesn't help the ones in a herd that get taken down by carnivores anyway, or fall and are trampled, but if you're trying to get as many wildebeest from A to B alive then you want a herd so that's the "wildebeest migration public health policy".cycle tramp wrote: ↑4 Dec 2023, 10:17pmI think you're right. I would be very doubtful if any studies would accurately refect the type of riding that do and the environment in which I do it...
..further to this point, I would equally doubt whether or not such studies woould take into consideration other 'safety aids' which I may or may not be using.
"It's obvious!"Nearholmer wrote: ↑4 Dec 2023, 9:55pm What meaning is being assigned to the term “common sense” in this debate?
pjclinch wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:05am
What's good for populations isn't necessarily the best for all individuals that are part of it (and vice versa, e.g. playing the lottery purely for financial gain is a mug's game at population level because the bank always comes out ahead, but if you luck out with a winning ticket then you're obviously ahead as an individual), but public health policy/advice that doesn't account for every single member of a population can still be beneficial overall. But with cycle helmets they're proposed as a general intervention for public benefit when we don't have a clear idea that they benefit public safety overall.
Pete.
Please clarify.pjclinch wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:05am
As Jonathan often points out, we need to be very clear about what specific questions we're actually asking when considering the answers, and it's not very likely that "am I, personally, on this particular trip, more or less likely to get a free ride to A&E if I wear this thing or not?" is one of the questions you'll get an answer to.
Pete.
Please highlight what isn't clear.Cowsham wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:40amPlease clarify.pjclinch wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:05am
As Jonathan often points out, we need to be very clear about what specific questions we're actually asking when considering the answers, and it's not very likely that "am I, personally, on this particular trip, more or less likely to get a free ride to A&E if I wear this thing or not?" is one of the questions you'll get an answer to.
Pete.
pjclinch wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:42amPlease highlight what isn't clear.Cowsham wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:40amPlease clarify.pjclinch wrote: ↑5 Dec 2023, 8:05am
As Jonathan often points out, we need to be very clear about what specific questions we're actually asking when considering the answers, and it's not very likely that "am I, personally, on this particular trip, more or less likely to get a free ride to A&E if I wear this thing or not?" is one of the questions you'll get an answer to.
Pete.
I'm not assigning any meaning; it's a form of words often used to justify rules, where no other evidence exists.Nearholmer wrote: ↑4 Dec 2023, 9:55pm What meaning is being assigned to the term “common sense” in this debate?