I do not know for sure, just what Cliff and our mutual friends had talked about and that is Cliff never got paid for it so as far as we were concerned technically it was still his. It's possible that Dave Legrys was in possession but not ownership, although to quote Dave on Twitter Cliff "kindly built and gave it to me as a form of sponsorship and good faith"; the bike was built for that record attempt in 1986 so the accuracy of something that was not written down is between Cliff and Dave of course.Jesper wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 11:34am Paul,
Thank you for your anecdotes regarding Cliff. Most of us in the US are unaware of his history in British cycling.
From what I gathered, Mr. Legrys ended up in possession of the bike at sometime, but unknown exactly how long after he set the record on it. His words are that he "donated" the bike to a museum; but by the way he makes it sound it was actually a loan, or possibly a "conditional donation" in which the museum was not given full ownership rights since Dave states that a museum sold the bike without his "knowledge or permission". It would seem that bike ended up in private hands before it now being for sale by Steel-Vintage. The fund raiser is specifically being done to put back into Dave's possession; but there is no indication as to what he will do with it should he regain possession of it.
There is a more informative piece in a Cycling weekly article that maybe be of interest which highlights what happened after Dave "loaned it to the Harlow bicycle museum in 1987. It was loaned, not given to them", then "Harlow museum closed down and sold all their exhibits to a museum in Cornwall. I tracked it down and said, that’s my bike. But they said they bought it legitimately"; the bike then apparently went to Saudi Arabia, then Slovakia and now owned by someone in Berlin.
The article ends with "Le Grys plans to put the bike back on display, and says any extra funds raised by the campaign will be donated to a prostate cancer charity. As far as I am concerned after all these years and of course with Cliff no longer being with us to me it kind of doesn't now matter if it is part of Cliff's estate or Dave's, the latter is not doing it for personal gain, he seems to just want it back to put it back on display in another museum, I have met Dave a few times and yes he's a larger than life character but I don't for a moment doubt his honourable intentions.
Yes Cliff built that to Dave's specification "The geometry was taken from the track bike I raced on. It was a 74-parallel 22in frame. He built it around that geometry and stuck two bottom brackets in." and yes Dave did have "wobble at 80-odd mph" and being Dave "he just kept accelerating, which was OK because the speed wobble corrected itself"; no denying his bravery ! Worth noting that Cliffs bike maybe 74 degree 74-parallel, which is not conducive to stability but it does look like it has slightly longer chainstays-wheelbase than it would have been on his pure track bike, all be it not as long as other bikes used for similar records, although those attempts were often not on a smooth tarmac surface so no doubt that extra stability would have been even more of a consideration at the R & D stage of the build. It is possible that Cliff may not have increased the stays to aid stability, it may have been to accommodate the extra featurespq wrote: ↑16 Apr 2023, 8:58pm I'm in a FB group frequented by Dave Le Grys and he was talking about this bike. It was essentially a copy of the track bike he was riding at the time, obviously with the additional stuff for the transmission and the tow rope. He reckoned a bike he was very used to riding would be ideal, but of course it wasn't, it was never designed to go at those speeds and was unstable when it did. Its instability made what Dave Le Grys did on it all the more impressive/brave/foolhardy. If you look at bikes used later for similar records they have longer wheelbases and other differences which make them very different from a bike you'd use for any other purpose. I don't think that reflects on Cliff Shrubb at all, he built what he was asked to build and did it very well, but to be blunt it wasn't really fit for purpose. I hope it ends up in a museum, that's very much where it belongs.