Nut Zero

[Jdsk]

...
We produce 1 percent of global emissions, China and the US 50 percent.

So our emissions are a bit more than our global share ought to be? We have a bit less than 1% of the world population but, you say, we produce 1% of emissions. And that is after getting China and others to do all the dirty maunufacturing for us! If we don't sort out our 1%, how can we ask them to sort out their share, some of which is from making stuff for us anyway?

Yes.

You can divide just about anything into bits some of which are smaller than other bits. That doesn't mean that a particular bit isn't worth addressing.

Jonathan

PS: Does this recurrent trope have a name?

[Carlton green]

Screeching Labour U turn on the cards. 24 million gas boilers, 97 percent of vehicles run on petrol or diesel, 180 oil and gas fields will be exausted this decade and 60 percent of our energy comes from those sources. No new drilling....The Unions, Labours paymasters, are worried about the thousands of jobs that will disappear. We produce 1 percent of global emissions, China and the US 50 percent.

Just saying....

Al

Yes, I’d have thought it likely that Labour will be forced to review what it expects to do, should it be elected, versus what resources it feels that it will have available. The current lot haven’t made a great job of things and the Truss excursion made things far worse than they could have been. Russia invading Ukraine has had a very destructive effect - and been utilised by various western world profiteers and opportunists … Covid was a similar shambles and IMHO Brexit (which I support) was ‘rather badly’ managed and it will be a long time before we’re doing OK again - politicians, hanging is too good for some of them.

My conclusion is that the best way for the UK to reduce global emissions is by being an exemplar who actively shows (how to) and encourages others to reduce emissions. In Glodal terms the UK is a geographic dwarf and so is our population yet, at the same time, we’re relatively large in terms of monetary GDP value. We do have some international influence and what we do can make significant differences beyond these shores. Hence our 1% does matter because how we deal with it influences other countries.

[Stevek76]

The point is Labour are having to rethink their spending plans for the environment because of the inflation, higher interests rates and generally poorer economic propsects cause by Truss's disastrous 49 days.

Truss, though an immense failure at everything, is far from the sole cause of those, indeed the medium and long term economic effects of actions like hers are pretty negligible, they do not change a countries fundamentals.

Much of inflation is due to external shocks, a large one of which we can lay at the feet of Putin. Whether interest rates are really a good way to deal with that kind of inflation is debatable but without government intervention to soften the feed through of energy prices to businesses and ultimately consumers the BoE only has one tool in it's box.

None of that really should make any difference to labour's plans. Poorer economic prospects are usually a prompt for more public investment, not less so that is a poor excuse.

Whilst there may be the valid point that the uks supply chains may not be in the required position immediately (at which point over investment can spike inflation) it would have been far better to simply word it somewhat more subtly in the first place (eg make available £xxbn of investment per annum from day one) business thrives on certainty, not indecisiveness.

That said, I'm not seeing much in the way of any u turn imminent from them on this topic, recent history has shown that even ignoring the climate risks, dependency on fossil fuels is not good for an economy, the quicker we can extract ourselves from them the better. That Germany has become the diminishing supporters of brexit EU economic point of comparison shows this as well.

Plus we should be trying to lead in emerging sectors, not clinging on to yesterday's.

[Jdsk]

...
My conclusion is that the best way for the UK to reduce global emissions is by being an exemplar who actively shows (how to) and encourages others to reduce emissions. In Glodal terms the UK is a geographic dwarf and so is our population yet, at the same time, we’re relatively large in terms of monetary GDP value. We do have some international influence and what we do can make significant differences beyond these shores. Hence our 1% does matter because how we deal with it influences other countries.

...
Plus we should be trying to lead in emerging sectors, not clinging on to yesterday's.
...

Yes x4 ( I think).

The UK has plenty of competitive advantage in this sector. It would be even stronger with rapid return to the major scientific and educational collaborations across Europe. And, of course, a recognisable and consistent national policy.

Our major weakness is in no longer being in a position to have much effect on international regulation.

Jonathan

[mjr]

PS: Does this recurrent trope have a name?

Divide and conquer? Divide and dismiss? Mash until no good? Proof by absurdity?

[Biospace]

My conclusion is that the best way for the UK to reduce global emissions is by being an exemplar who actively shows (how to) and encourages others to reduce emissions. In Glodal terms the UK is a geographic dwarf and so is our population yet, at the same time, we’re relatively large in terms of monetary GDP value. We do have some international influence and what we do can make significant differences beyond these shores. Hence our 1% does matter because how we deal with it influences other countries.

For as long as Drax is running as it is, the UK can be highlighted as a good example of a nation which adheres to rules using crafty means, going against the ethos of international agreements. It's not that we're the only nation doing so, but we're doing it on a significantly bigger scale and importing most of what is being set ablaze.

Being an offshore island with a breezy climate and strong tides we've long taken full advantage, diluting and dispersing toxic materials. Our nuclear industry has been a perennial farce with an appalling record of contamination of our beaches, seabeds and more.

The present focus mostly on CO2 emissions has been taken up by the UK with some zeal, perhaps it's a convenient distraction? Rather than using our geographical location to pollute the planet more than most, at the very least we'd do well to help us strive to become one of the least polluted nations on the planet.

[mattheus]

PS: Does this recurrent trope have a name?

Divide and conquer? Divide and dismiss? Mash until no good? Proof by absurdity?

I was thinking:
Playground logic ("but THEY did it first Miss!"), Or maybe
Pure utter selfishness.

<sigh>

[matt_twam_asi]

PS: Does this recurrent trope have a name?

Divide and conquer? Divide and dismiss? Mash until no good? Proof by absurdity?

I was thinking:
Playground logic ("but THEY did it first Miss!"), Or maybe
Pure utter selfishness.

<sigh>

One more: whataboutery.

[Stevek76]

Two wrongs...

Also a variant of appeal to poverty.

[al_yrpal]

Apparently the SNP/Greens want to ban gas boilers in new houses and buildings from next April.

Pass the popcorn!

Al

[Jdsk]

I'm really impressed with the knowledge of rhetorical tricks and logical fallacies. Thanks, all.

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

Apparently the SNP/Greens want to ban gas boilers in new houses and buildings from next April.

Pass the popcorn!

Al

IIRC, which is far from guaranteed, then the fitting of gas boilers to new builds is already scheduled to be ‘outlawed’ in/from 2025. Perhaps levels of energy efficiency are also scheduled to be raised for new builds too. As for what gas is actually in the mains in the future and where it will come from that’s anybody’s guess, I’m inclined to think that gas could well be in short supply. In some parts of the country new housing developments have been - and so for decades - all electric; the National Gas Grid does not fully cover the UK so people resort to storage heaters and whatever else they can utilise.

[Stevek76]

Well done snp/greens. Should go further and demand passivehuas or similar standards for new homes.

House price inflation has vastly exceeded that of labour and construction materials. House builders must clearly be raking it in as a result. Clearly can afford to build high quality energy efficient homes if required.

[al_yrpal]

The new religion?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/0 ... ed-church/

Al

[Carlton green]

The new religion?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/0 ... ed-church/

Al

Yep, polarisation is rarely helpful and is too often a hindrance. Perfection is the enemy of good.

Telegraph headlines? I don’t put much faith in them anymore, IMHO it’s not the paper that it once was.