Brake levers

[Grldtnr]

I have a Thorn club tourist bike ,purchased sometime in 2002 , I have finally accepted that I need to do something about the brakes,.
I want to increase the braking efficiency, i.e. increase the cable pull to provide more stronger braking,
I have on the bike mid / shorty cantilever brakes unbranded as far as I can see, possibly Shimano, with Shimano branded aero levers model unknown, they are probably not matched to give enough cable pull, likely intended for dual pivot or side pull calipers.
So , how can I increase the cable pull, Dia Compe used to make levers to provide increased travel on the cable, model 986 I believe, or is there a widget I can fit , a cam or something , a cable traveler to increase the pull.
It's a 20 yr old bike occasionally used for mini touring trips loaded with camping gear, I had a 'time out' period from cycling, then went to the dark side of recumbent riding, as it's more comfortable with injuries I sustained from a road traffic collision I had in 2001, yes the bike is outdated , but usable, it can freely travel on trains, which the recumbent can not, n for the sake of a pair of brake levers, it's braking can be improved immeasurably.

[Paulkentuk]

Might be worth considering a change in your brake pad material, to increase your stopping ability.
Wiggle have a selection of pads, and of course you could combine that with any lever swap.

[geomannie]

Cantilever brakes are designed for use with short pull levers. Your problem might be a miss match in components (not very likely if original), a set up issue, or as Paulkentuk suggests a problem with your brake blocks.

Can you post a few pictures showing your brakes, levers & cable run? That would help with a solution.

[Vantage]

For increased cable pull you'll be wanting a travel agent. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/prob ... lver-each/
However, if I remember correctly, they lead to less braking power, not more. I used some myself and wasn't impressed at what they did to my vbrakes.
Your best bet I think is playing with the straddle cable height, better brake pads (Aztecs are good) or just replacing the brake system for vbrakes. You'll be needing the travel adapters then if using drop bars or vbrake specific brake levers. Dia compe and tektro make them.

[CyberKnight]

another option assuming lever compatibly is to convert to mini v brakes that work with road bike pull levers

[mcshroom]

Is gear shifting separate to braking? If so then you can match up levers and brakes reasonably easily.

One option would be Tektro RL-520 levers, and switching the brakes to full size V-Brakes. Another would be a shorter pull lever such as a Tektro RL-340 which should work with your current brakes, or with mini-v brakes.

Especially if you are sticking with the current brakes, it might be worth looking at the cables, and the pads on the current set up before forking out money for new levers.

[slowster]

I have on the bike mid / shorty cantilever brakes unbranded as far as I can see, possibly Shimano, with Shimano branded aero levers model unknown, they are probably not matched to give enough cable pull, likely intended for dual pivot or side pull calipers.

Given the age of the bike, I think that is very unlikely. As far as I am aware Shimano only made short (Super SLR) cable pull aero levers at that time which were compatible both with its dual pivot brakes and with cantilever brakes. It was starting in 2008 that Shimano altered the cable pull of its dual pivot brakes from its groupsets such that they needed to be used with an STI lever with matching cable pull (NSSLR). From your description I suspect you may have BL-R400 levers as shown in the photograph below.

NB Fitting a longer pull brake to a cantilever or dual pivot will result in reduced braking power according to Brucey's posts on the subject.

As geomannie advises, the best thing you can do is post some photographs of your brakes. When people have previously complained in threads of poor braking with low profile and mid-profile cantilevers, the cause has usually turned out to be incorrect set up, which is often easily remedied.

[Manc33]

As an upgrade (and oh boy... is it an upgrade!) a pair of used Dura-Ace 7800 calipers (or 7900 if you want to spend the extra) with Kool-Stop Salmon pads. They aren't cheap (the calipers of the pads) but it's the best upgrade I ever did back when I was on a road bike with rim brakes. Someone's flogging a pair of 7900 on a well known auction site right now for £90 which is a steal.

The levers are almost irrelevant when you have calipers that good - the best thing is, you feel safer on the bike, you can brake later.

I have had cheap setups where I can barely slow down on 10% declines in the rain. It was when that hair-raising experience happened, I swapped to Dura-Ace calipers . Maybe Ultegra ones are as good, I don't know - never tried them. All I know is a high end caliper is like night and day compared to stuff like Tektro that is on cheaper bikes.

[PT1029]

Can you supply a photo of the brake calipers in the on and off position.
You may have your calipers set up incorrectly (but may be not!). I have seen many calipers poorly set up (and then ask the owners if they remember reslolution of forces and moments from their teenage school days - their eyes then glaze over.......).

Also if the bike has had low use for a while, the pads may well have aged and gone hard, such pads give poor friction when the brakes are used.

I use Shimano aero levers (fairly old, not sure which model, probably 1st generation dual pivot ones, they look like the ones pictured upthread) with 1980's mark 1 Shimano XT wide brake arms - work a treat!

[Grldtnr]

As an upgrade (and oh boy... is it an upgrade!) a pair of used Dura-Ace 7800 calipers (or 7900 if you want to spend the extra) with Kool-Stop Salmon pads. They aren't cheap (the calipers of the pads) but it's the best upgrade I ever did back when I was on a road bike with rim brakes. Someone's flogging a pair of 7900 on a well known auction site right now for £90 which is a steal.

The levers are almost irrelevant when you have calipers that good - the best thing is, you feel safer on the bike, you can brake later.

I have had cheap setups where I can barely slow down on 10% declines in the rain. It was when that hair-raising experience happened, I swapped to Dura-Ace calipers . Maybe Ultegra ones are as good, I don't know - never tried them. All I know is a high end caliper is like night and day compared to stuff like Tektro that is on cheaper bikes.

The brakes are shorty / mid cantilever ones not dual pivot side pulls.

[Grldtnr]

Can you supply a photo of the brake calipers in the on and off position.
You may have your calipers set up incorrectly (but may be not!). I have seen many calipers poorly set up (and then ask the owners if they remember reslolution of forces and moments from their teenage school days - their eyes then glaze over.......).

Also if the bike has had low use for a while, the pads may well have aged and gone hard, such pads give poor friction when the brakes are used.

I use Shimano aero levers (fairly old, not sure which model, probably 1st generation dual pivot ones, they look like the ones pictured upthread) with 1980's mark 1 Shimano XT wide brake arms - work a treat!

I 'll check the pads, they will be old the bike hasn't had much use, last time it had a pad change the bike shop did it, I couldn't at the time due to my injuries, they are Shimano pads.
I have used other branded pads before 'Kool stop' didn't fare well for me, they picked up a lot of grit, and made a bit of a mess and wore quickly.
But the same could be said of any pads I suppose.
I 'll give the old pads a shave , trim them up see if that helps, otherwise it's a pad change really.
I do know how to set them up, it's a reet pain , to do it with those concave shaped washer/ spacers, I am a competent cyclo mech, I used to service 'Royal Mail' bikes as my duty at the GPO, old style roller Rod brakes anyone? They were tricky, but set up right they stopped remarkably well.

Thanks for all the fish !

[cycleruk]

The main set up for canti' brakes is to set the straddle cable so that the angles are basically right angles when the pads touch the rim.
This will give the best mechanical advantage for any set up.
If the middle of the straddle wire is at a more acute angle (higher up) then this will reduce the pull on the brakes.
In the bottom photo It can be seen that the straddle wire is slightly slack. This slackness has to be taken up first when the pads contact the rim. Once the slack has gone then that's when the maximum pad pressure occurs.

No comments please about the condition of the bike as I can assure you that the brakes will easily lock up the wheel.

[steve.y.griffith]

Yes the right angle rule gives the best braking . You say you have mid profile ones I have found that only the older wide profile work well with drop bars .Ie the ones that stick out at 90 degrees from the frame . That’s the original Mafac design improved on by Shimano with the M752 etc and DiaCompe960 980 981 .By the mid 90,s Shimano had moved to low / mid profile driven by the ATB market …. I always thought it was poor that most of the touring bikes of that era were fitted with suboptimal braking ….

[Norman H]

The main trick to correct setting up low profile canti's is to get the straddle wire as low as possible. For a more detailed explanation see this thread: viewtopic.php?t=57410 It's a bit of a long read but well worth the effort.

If you have Shimano's fixed length straddle links you may need to ditch them in favour of separate straddle wires and yokes in order to achieve good braking performance.

The conical washers come in pairs, one convex and one concave, and one pair will be thicker than the other. Due to their conical nature you can articulate the shoe to achieve toe in and depending on where you fit the thick and/or thin pair you can compensate for various rim widths and arrange that the shoes meet the rim as close to 90°as possible.

The Park tools site is a good source of instructional videos: https://www.parktool.com/en-int/blog/repair-help

[slowster]

The comments about the straddle cable being at right angles are an incorrect understanding of how cantilevers work.

The definitive explanation regarding the impact of stradle height on low and mid profile cantilevers, including the mathematics, was provided by CJ (also posting as 'Cyclenut') in this thread in Too Good To Lose - viewtopic.php?t=57410. OP, I strongly recommend you read that thread.

A key point CJ made was that with low and mid profile canitlevers, as the brake is operated and the straddle is pulled upwards, the mechanical advantage of the brake progressively reduces. To maximise the mechanical advantage that remains at the point that the pads contact the rim, the straddle needs to be as low as possible and the pads should be set fairly close to the rim.