Cycling UK Forum

simonineaston wrote: 2 May 2023, 3:17pm What annoys me most is the fact that so few people seem to have a good grasp of the underlying and continuing issues... reflecting on my own experience, I barely know more than one or two people who have taken the time & trouble to read round the subject responsibly and who can articulate relevant arguments. Myself, I've spent hours reading as much as I can get my hands on and still don't think I have a particularly good grasp of the important topics concerned.
In partic. the catnip that is the word sovereignty seems to evade the full understanding of the vast majority of folk I've heard discuss it! All-in-all, it's certainly not the sort of issue for which we should have risked a binding referendum!

roubaixtuesday wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 7:17am Politicians are IMO absolutely not all the same.

The likes of Johnson and Trump are another breed entirely from more traditional politicians, many of whom whether you agree with them or not are sincere in their attempts to improve things.

This is not a party political point; take note of the excoriating opinions of more traditional tories like Rory Stewart, Dominic Grieve and Max Hastings of Johnson.

The worst of politicians *want* you to believe all politicians are the same.

simonineaston wrote: 2 May 2023, 3:17pm ... All-in-all, it's certainly not the sort of issue for which we should have risked a binding referendum!

Jdsk wrote: 2 May 2023, 3:20pm

simonineaston wrote: 2 May 2023, 3:17pm What annoys me most is the fact that so few people seem to have a good grasp of the underlying and continuing issues... reflecting on my own experience, I barely know more than one or two people who have taken the time & trouble to read round the subject responsibly and who can articulate relevant arguments. Myself, I've spent hours reading as much as I can get my hands on and still don't think I have a particularly good grasp of the important topics concerned.
In partic. the catnip that is the word sovereignty seems to evade the full understanding of the vast majority of folk I've heard discuss it! All-in-all, it's certainly not the sort of issue for which we should have risked a binding referendum!

Which makes an excellent case for more discussion rather than less.

Jonathan

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 2:38pm
You don't understand statistics.

These polls are designed to give representative results to within about +/-3%

Why you think you know better than polling and statistical experts is a matter for you, but of course, (1) nobody would commission these if they weren't representative and (2) if sample size made them unreliable, the results would very massively from poll to poll. They don't.

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 2:38pm
Seriously, you're just denying reality here. Most people think Brexit has failed. We need to deal with it and move forward.

roubaixtuesday wrote: 1 May 2023, 7:41pm
Given the polling, it must be the case pretty much everywhere.

853 wrote: 2 May 2023, 5:41pm

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 2:38pm You don't understand statistics.

These polls are designed to give representative results to within about +/-3%

Why you think you know better than polling and statistical experts is a matter for you, but of course, (1) nobody would commission these if they weren't representative and (2) if sample size made them unreliable, the results would very massively from poll to poll. They don't.

If you want to know about the accuracy of opinion polls, you should ask David Cameron and George Osborne
...

853 wrote: 2 May 2023, 5:41pm

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 2:38pm
You don't understand statistics.

These polls are designed to give representative results to within about +/-3%

Why you think you know better than polling and statistical experts is a matter for you, but of course, (1) nobody would commission these if they weren't representative and (2) if sample size made them unreliable, the results would very massively from poll to poll. They don't.

If you want to know about the accuracy of opinion polls, you should ask David Cameron and George Osborne

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 2:38pm
Seriously, you're just denying reality here. Most people think Brexit has failed. We need to deal with it and move forward.

I'm not denying anything, you are just trying to make out that a poll of 1300 from a population of over 67.33 million is definitive proof

roubaixtuesday wrote: 1 May 2023, 7:41pm
Given the polling, it must be the case pretty much everywhere.

It wasn't a binding referendum.

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 6:14pm
Sure you are - you're denying overwhelming evidence that a very clear majority of people think brexit was a mistake.

ossie wrote: 2 May 2023, 8:21pm

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 6:14pm
Sure you are - you're denying overwhelming evidence that a very clear majority of people think brexit was a mistake.

53% isn't a very clear majority and that's exactly what one of your polls showed for 22nd March 2023 and 19th April , literally less than two weeks ago.

You've probably spent the last seven years arguing 52% wasn't a very clear majority so why are you claiming 53% is. This was one of your polls (yougov) which btw was up and down like a fiddlers elbow so hardly seems demonstrative of public opinion.

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 8:37pm

ossie wrote: 2 May 2023, 8:21pm

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 May 2023, 6:14pm
Sure you are - you're denying overwhelming evidence that a very clear majority of people think brexit was a mistake.

53% isn't a very clear majority and that's exactly what one of your polls showed for 22nd March 2023 and 19th April , literally less than two weeks ago.

You've probably spent the last seven years arguing 52% wasn't a very clear majority so why are you claiming 53% is. This was one of your polls (yougov) which btw was up and down like a fiddlers elbow so hardly seems demonstrative of public opinion.

I note that you ascribe all the don't knows in one direction.

simonineaston wrote: 2 May 2023, 6:22pm

It wasn't a binding referendum.

I chose to use the wrong word, I spose... I recall that the gov. at the time promised to impliment the result, so in that sense we could consider it was "binding".