Velomobiles, are they really that fast?

[Grldtnr]

I will never find out as I am a bit out of gauge really,I don't imagine I could ever slip in and out of one, but given I ride a recumbent trike, I do question the claim of speediness of Velo's.
I do concede the point that recumbents are slow up hill, and fast down , so there is the aerodynamic advantage, and is also true I can maintain an average faster than I would on a 'upwrong' ,but the 'upwrong' accelerates quicker.
Are Velo's more efficient?

[[XAP]Bob]

More efficient and/or fast than what?

I wish I had discovered velomobiles 15 years earlier than I did - I can't think of a better commuting machine, I'd likely have added a small e-assist system to reduce the energy output off the lights, out of junctions and up the hills (as I did on my ICE sprint when I was commuting 30 miles a day) but that's not essential.

The fastest 'bent I had was a raptobike, and the wind cheetah feels similarly direct and urgent, the mango velomobile feels less immediate, but it eats miles very comfortably. In many respects it's similar to my sprint in that regard, which was my commuting vehicle for about a decade, comfortably eats miles at a decent rate, but doesn't give you that kick up the backside to really push hard.

I am massively less fit and strong now than I was when I was commuting - though I'm trying to get more miles in now, and for that a velo is great. I can go out in the rain and not get cold and wet.
In the summer months I'll revert to using my cheetah for many rides, particularly with other people - that certainly doesn't get the top speeds of the mango, and the cruise on the flat is slower, but my average speed is somewhat similar (at least I think so, I haven't really had a chance to do a fair comparison yet*) because the lower mass does have an effect going up hills.

The mango has the advantage of very easy bulk storage, including a decent fleece top, tools etc (though the more you carry the more you have to lift up the hills), and of a very consistent environment inside - I don't get cold in shady patches of road this time of year, or burnt on exposed sections, I don't get wind chill down the hills nor do I really overheat going up them (without the roof on I put my arms out sometimes, 'hanging' slightly off the seat for extra cooling).
My drinks bottle is at my right hand, indicators under my left fingers... very nice and civilised.

The rapto was outright fastest on the average - though some of that was additional fitness/strength and some was that it was absolutely set up for speed, no dynamo etc, though it did have an aero tailbox.
The "encouragement" you get from that ultra direct feel is quite a significant factor in how much effort you put in - some of my fastest commutes I got off and thought "Ugh that was hard work today, oh it was fully five minutes faster than usual, that'll be why ".


* Fair comparison issues:
I've only really ridden the mango this year, and have upgraded the gearing this year as well - now running a Schlumpf HSD (38/95 chainring) and a Rohloff - that's set to 17" to "way too high", gearing set so that overdrive kicks in at ~25mph and mostly uses the more efficient 7 gears on the speedhub.
The Cheetah is on dangly gears, 3*8 but I don't know the ratios. I've upgraded the idlers, and could probably bump the chainring sizes a couple of teeth, but it's good enough.

[a.twiddler]

I would say, with my limited experience of recumbenting and even less of trikes that aside from the mechanical side of it, that the biggest thing slowing you down is the number of people who want to talk about what you are riding whenever you stop. I can only guess how much more of a people magnet a velomobile must be!

[Tigerbiten]

The record for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats is held by Andy Wilkinson, who completed the journey in 41 hours, 4 minutes and 22 seconds on a faired Windcheetah recumbent tricycle.
It's still over 2 hours under the 43 hours, 25 minutes and 13 seconds for a road bike.
But that's never mentioned when the cycling record times are pulled up.

Luck .......

[pjclinch]

I will never find out as I am a bit out of gauge really,I don't imagine I could ever slip in and out of one, but given I ride a recumbent trike, I do question the claim of speediness of Velo's.
I do concede the point that recumbents are slow up hill, and fast down , so there is the aerodynamic advantage, and is also true I can maintain an average faster than I would on a 'upwrong' ,but the 'upwrong' accelerates quicker.
Are Velo's more efficient?

Have a look at the GCN video...


Manon's beaten by Si on a TT bike... but at considerably lower power and not being used to her trike. She whipped Hank on the road bike, again at a fraction of the power.

On the track the Hour Record is Ganna's frankly rather special 56.792 km
The IHPVA record, on a faired recumbent, is 57.435, which doesn't sound like it's too much better until we notice I've made a mistake with the units and given you the distance in miles instead of km, which would be 92.432.

So yes, velomobiles are properly fast as long as you're at speeds where aero makes a big difference (probably north of 20 mph or so)

Pete.

[Grldtnr]

All the blogs & blogs I've seen , they have massive chainring sized much bigger than 53 - 54 race sets, with very small rings for climbing, or mountain drives.
0robably the weight is much less than my AZUB, but Velos generally are monocoque carbon fibre.
But they are pretty rare beasts here in blighty, would love to give one a try , but I am a man mountain rather than a streaky road racer, I give my chest measurements in feet rather than inches !!!

[UpWrong]

All the blogs & blogs I've seen , they have massive chainring sized much bigger than 53 - 54 race sets, with very small rings for climbing, or mountain drives.
0robably the weight is much less than my AZUB, but Velos generally are monocoque carbon fibre.
But they are pretty rare beasts here in blighty, would love to give one a try , but I am a man mountain rather than a streaky road racer, I give my chest measurements in feet rather than inches !!!

There are quite a number of velomobiles in the UK, many used by BHPC members, and there have been quite a few up for sale over the last couple of years for very fair prices. Generally I'd say they most benefit strong riders. If you can comfortably maintain 15mph or more on a flat road with a recumbent trike then you'd probably find a velo noticeably faster, provided you can get in and out of them.

I was very keen to have one a number of years ago but I don't think I'm strong enough to benefit, and they have a number of downsides too.

[a.twiddler]

All the blogs & blogs I've seen , they have massive chainring sized much bigger than 53 - 54 race sets, with very small rings for climbing, or mountain drives.
0robably the weight is much less than my AZUB, but Velos generally are monocoque carbon fibre.
But they are pretty rare beasts here in blighty, would love to give one a try , but I am a man mountain rather than a streaky road racer, I give my chest measurements in feet rather than inches !!!

There are quite a number of velomobiles in the UK, many used by BHPC members, and there have been quite a few up for sale over the last couple of years for very fair prices. Generally I'd say they most benefit strong riders. If you can comfortably maintain 15mph or more on a flat road with a recumbent trike then you'd probably find a velo noticeably faster, provided you can get in and out of them.

I was very keen to have one a number of years ago but I don't think I'm strong enough to benefit, and they have a number of downsides too.

I would think from the above, the market for velomobiles is pretty self limiting. Unless you are well invested in BHPC stuff, or are in the top 10 percent of fitness for cyclists and have a commuter route that favours the strengths of one of these, it's a sizeable investment to take for someone of average ability. Nevertheless, who wouldn't jump at the chance to try one! It's a pretty charismatic vehicle.

[Cowsham]

The record for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats is held by Andy Wilkinson, who completed the journey in 41 hours, 4 minutes and 22 seconds on a faired Windcheetah recumbent tricycle.
It's still over 2 hours under the 43 hours, 25 minutes and 13 seconds for a road bike.
But that's never mentioned when the cycling record times are pulled up.

Luck .......

Two questions
1 I a recumbent bicycle / velo faster?
2 if you encounter a steep hill you can't pedal up, can you walk and wheel a recumbent?

I'd love one -- had a run on an ice trike and loved that

[Psamathe]

The record for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats is held by Andy Wilkinson, who completed the journey in 41 hours, 4 minutes and 22 seconds on a faired Windcheetah recumbent tricycle.
It's still over 2 hours under the 43 hours, 25 minutes and 13 seconds for a road bike.
But that's never mentioned when the cycling record times are pulled up.

Luck ....... :D

Two questions
1 I a recumbent bicycle / velo faster?
2 if you encounter a steep hill you can't pedal up, can you walk and wheel a recumbent?

I'd love one -- had a run on an ice trike and loved that

Re: Recumbent trike (tadople), I've no experience of velomobiles nor two wheel recumbents.

2. In East Anglia hills are not a problem but on a couple of occasions I have found cycle bridges in the Netherlands too steep to pedal over (the real up-and-over style) and I've always managed to drag by tadople fully laden with camping gear over fine. Supposition: As to how easy to push up - probably depends on the trike, for example if I had the full rack on mine that would be very easy to push-up hills as it gives a "push point" at a good height. But I only use the full upper rack when touring, normally cycling with just the lower rack. There are a lot of styles and add-ons to change on a recumbent tadpole.

1. Re: speed: Again, difficult to answer because for several years I seem to have been slowing down. Certainly I find mine slower uphill and faster downhill though how the two average out I've no idea. But also, I find speed is less of a concern as the seat/position means I'm looking up, looking around, observing nature, etc. far more than on a DF bike. The seating position seems to encourage me to far more watching the world rather than watching the immediate road in front - so speed becomes less relevant.

Ian

[Biospace]

A chap who worked at the LBS used to commute about 8 miles in his velo on an undulating road, he said he'd never been fitter although the journey time wasn't improved quite so much as anticipated compared with an upright. The point being, he could arrive at work dry, no matter what the weather.

I think an electric motor is close to being a 'no-brainer' given the extra mass.

[a.twiddler]

If only it was practical to fully-fair a recumbent bike, that might help with speed up hills. OK for racing perhaps when there's someone to support you when you start and stop but otherwise you need a draggy unstreamlined cut out so you can get your feet down. Still plenty of scope to find yourself embarrassingly capsized at a junction if you don't unclip in time I would think.

While reading about partially faired bikes such as the Kingcycle I was surprised to learn that it's not the front streamlining that makes the most difference, but the tail fairing as it reduces the drag from the turbulent vortices behind the bike. Whether that's the same for trikes, being wider (but not by much), I don't know. Not as slippery as full enclosure, of course. Could be a way to get more bang for your buck while saving up for that velomobile.

[Cowsham]

A chap who worked at the LBS used to commute about 8 miles in his velo on an undulating road, he said he'd never been fitter although the journey time wasn't improved quite so much as anticipated compared with an upright. The point being, he could arrive at work dry, no matter what the weather.

He's fitter probably because he can cycle to work more times and not get wet -- very interesting as I bike commute when I can but live in a watery soup bowl called Northern Ireland. Don't mind going home wet but would rather arrive at work dry.

I think an electric motor is close to being a 'no-brainer' given the extra mass.

Yes an electric motor with a torque sensor in the crank bracket would be the answer to get a quick getaway at lights etc ie instant power without the delay of the cadence sensor.

[Tigerbiten]

Which is faster depends on how lumpy the route is. On a flat route a recumbent bike/velomobile will be faster. Over the hills then a road bike starts to catch up. Once it gets mountainous then just being able to get out of the saddle helps a lot, so a bike will probably win. Over longer distances then the comfort of a recumbent also tend to skew things into the recumbents favour.

There is no lower limit as to what your 1st gear can go down to on a trike. My first gear is only 9.6" and I climb at 2.2 mph flat out. Only +20% hills are hard work at these speeds. But the limiting factor for hill climbing on my bent trike is grip on the back wheel. Once the back wheel starts to slip/spin because the going is wet/loose then you need to get off and pull. Once off then the top of the seat/rack makes a good handhold. On the flat you just lift the back wheel to point the trike where you want it to go. Uphill I tend to lean forwards to put a hand on a front mudguard for steering.

Luck .........

[[XAP]Bob]

E-assist is one of those no brainers that’s not really a no brainer.

If you have lots of stop/start then maybe, but otherwise your cruising speed is just too high, you can basically never use the assist. Though when you do need it (hills and starts) it’s very nice indeed.
Really depends on your routes and reason for riding.

From my experience the fastest I’ve been is on the raptobike - but that’s an aggressive low racer, not a typical bent.
The cheetah and mango are about the same at the moment, but the mango is substantially more comfortable as well as being protected from the weather (and wind chill) which means that yesterday's ride was infinitely faster in the mango than on any other .