Cycling UK Forum

I was idly thinking about replacing the 7 speed derailleur currently fitted to my bike with an internally geared hub, looking on the internet I came across an Amazon listing for a Sturmy Archer 3 speed hub fitted into a Raleigh wheel for less than £35!
Looking elsewhere it seems the hub by itself sells for at least £80 so why was the item so cheap?

This is the item, now seems to be listed at £100?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tru-build-Whee ... 161&sr=8-1

Looks like the price of that product has been dropping steadily since it peaked around December time. It then dropped more rapidly over the last month. It's seemed to have shot up in price on Amazon now that there's only one left in stock:



Maybe they had some stock they needed to shift. Or someone else was selling cheaper so it forced a drop in price?

Brik wrote: ↑6 May 2023, 9:02pm I was idly thinking about replacing the 7 speed derailleur currently fitted to my bike with an internally geared hub, looking on the internet I came across an Amazon listing for a Sturmy Archer 3 speed hub fitted into a Raleigh wheel for less than £35!
Looking elsewhere it seems the hub by itself sells for at least £80 so why was the item so cheap?

The price that something sells at has but a loose link to manufacturing costs and is all about commerce. I suggest that someone just had surplus stock to clear or wanted to raise cash.

One of my bikes has a three speed SA AW and I love it - never expected to like it so much. Of course it has its limitations, but there’s still much to enjoy about a well set-up three speed bike.

Thanks for the replies.
I ordered a fitting kit for the wheel which arrived yesterday so today I set about test fitting, it doesn't!
My old wheel has an axle length of 184 m.m. with an o.l.d. of 135.
The new wheel is 163 with 116 o.l.d.
Above measurements are approximate as I don't have a set of verniers, only an old steel rule.
Now I probably could use spacers on the axle and make it fit but it wouldn't be right.

Does anyone know what sort of bikes are likely to have a rear drop out suitable for this wheel?

The vast majority of old 3 speed bikes had OLN dimensions of about 120mm and designed for Sturmey AW 3 speed hubs.

Longer axles are available but you would have to strip the hub to rebuild it, then you may hit other issues like keeping the sprocket inline with the chainring and recentering the rim.

Brik wrote: ↑12 May 2023, 12:40pm Thanks for the replies.
I ordered a fitting kit for the wheel which arrived yesterday so today I set about test fitting, it doesn't!
My old wheel has an axle length of 184 m.m. with an o.l.d. of 135.
The new wheel is 163 with 116 o.l.d.
Above measurements are approximate as I don't have a set of verniers, only an old steel rule.
Now I probably could use spacers on the axle and make it fit but it wouldn't be right.

Does anyone know what sort of bikes are likely to have a rear drop out suitable for this wheel?

Yes the (historical) standard drop out width for 3 speed hub bikes was something like 114 mm. 120 mm is the old five speed derailleur standard and drop out width standards have grown as freewheels and cassettes became wider, 135 mm is now commonplace. For what it’s worth I run an SA AW in 120 mm drop outs and I needed the longer axle (6&1/4”) than the standard fit (5&3/4”).

Without replacing the axle I doubt that what you have can be made to fit your bike, I’m not sure whether or not three speed hubs can be used in 135 mm drop outs but doubtless someone else will know.

Good luck. I love the SA AW’s, but with such wide drop outs I’d be considering a Shimano eight speed IGH.

Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown …

Most Sturmey-Archer hub installations are around 114 mm spacing.

The axles generally came in either short (5 3/4") or long (6 1/4") sizes. The longer size will generally work on a 120 mm frame, just add enough spacer washers to fill up the space.

Beyond 120, with typical 6 mm thick dropouts, it gets pretty dodgy.

If you don't already have them, you should pick up a pair of the HMW494 axle washers designed to fit the wider dropout slots.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vint ... acing.html

Here we are almost 12 months later and I've finally gotten around to fitting this 3 speed Sturmy Archer hub, I increased the o.l.d. to around 130 m.m. using spacers in-between the lock nuts on the original 3 speed axle, I then just tightened the wheel nuts and the alloy frame easily compressed the few millimetres needed to bring the axle almost flush with the wheel nuts.
I've been out for a quick test ride and first impressions are good, there was a slight clunking noise which I've just identified as the link in the chain passing through the tensioner, I'll sort that tomorrow...

Brik wrote: ↑30 Mar 2024, 12:25am Here we are almost 12 months later and I've finally gotten around to fitting this 3 speed Sturmy Archer hub, I increased the o.l.d. to around 130 m.m. using spacers in-between the lock nuts on the original 3 speed axle, I then just tightened the wheel nuts and the alloy frame easily compressed the few millimetres needed to bring the axle almost flush with the wheel nuts.
I've been out for a quick test ride and first impressions are good, there was a slight clunking noise which I've just identified as the link in the chain passing through the tensioner, I'll sort that tomorrow...

Thank you for the update, I wish you many years of cycling joy using your three speed hub. There are many threads here on the SA three speed - I’ve certainly started a few in recent years - and looking through them might well help you to extract the best from your AW. I’ve certainly benefited from research here and reading what folk have to share. If the SA AW’s are set-up well, to match the user’s needs, then (in my experience) they’re a joy to use - though of course a slight change in mindset and expectations helps too . Enjoy .

if the wheel is all-new you may have a NIG SRF3 internal there, in which case you can buy a much longer axle (longer than anything you can get for the older pre-NIG AW.) and make the hub fit a 135mm oln frame. 'Springing' an Al frame is a very good way of breaking it IMHO.

The SRC3 can be had with a 175mm axle (not in Europe - I had to get an axle via the USA), and the SRF3 probably can, too.

Swapping an axle is not a trivial job if you've not been inside a SA hub before, but you can leave pawls and other sub-assemblies intact. If the hub has been used, it would be best to completely disassemble it, degrease it, and build it up again. "Greased and sealed for life" really means "ongoing massive maintenance headache every year or two".

Brucey wrote: ↑30 Mar 2024, 5:58pm 'Springing' an Al frame is a very good way of breaking it IMHO.

Thanks for the advice, I was hoping that around 2 - 3 m.m. of flex each side would be alright, now you have me worried.

rogerzilla wrote: ↑31 Mar 2024, 8:30am The SRC3 can be had with a 175mm axle (not in Europe - I had to get an axle via the USA), and the SRF3 probably can, too.

I did look for longer axles but could find nothing for srf3.

I'm out on the bike now, just getting used to the new gears.
This picture shows the axle nut interface

Brik wrote: ↑31 Mar 2024, 5:57pm I'm out on the bike now, just getting used to the new gears.
This picture shows the axle nut interface
17119040141288894007758149752429.jpg

It looks like you’ve got a mid drive motor on that bike? The SA AW has a reputation for robustness, but how much power you can reliably put through them I’m not so sure. It’ll be interesting to see how you get on.