Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

[pete75]

Not by all back then. Surprisingly, Mrs Thatcher in a 1989 speech to the UN said

“What we are now doing to the world, by degrading the land surfaces, by polluting the waters and by adding greenhouse gases to the air at an unprecedented rate — all this is new in the experience of the Earth,” she told the general assembly. “It is mankind and his activities which are changing the environment of our planet in damaging and dangerous ways.”

Only surprising if you don't remember the actual Thatcher instead of the perverted myth idolised by the new Tories. For all her faults, she was a scientist, not a public relations spinner or a PPE (the subject not the products) aristo-wannabe.

Surprising because doing something about it would interfere with business and market forces. TBH don't know much about her really, never met the woman. My mother-in-law knew her quite well, mainly through her friendship with Margaret's older sister, Muriel.

[Stevek76]

The stuff quoted in the OP and on which quite a lot of this thread seems to depend was from a document published by Justice in May 2022 when this legislation was in the early stages of its parliamentary progress.

The public order bill 2023 was a Statutory Instrument pushed through on the negative procedure that largely reinserted the even more draconian elements of the Policing etc ... Act 2022 that had been amended out by the lords last year.

My MP already voted against (as did essentially all non tory MPs)

As for blaming the police, they obviously have a tough job and plenty of political pressure, but there were clear operational problems here and despite sunak's claims, political interference. Why were some of these people held for 13hrs+ even when it was obviously apparent to any reasonable person that they'd committed no crime? Why do they deliberately release people in the small hours just to make getting home more awkward (with a confiscated phone to boot)?

There is a line in the descent to facism where 'following orders' is not an acceptable excuse.

[Biospace]

There is a line in the descent to facism where 'following orders' is not an acceptable excuse.

Absolutely. We should remember German journalists and doctors were found guilty at the Nürnburg trials, and hanged.

However, we should also remember Western media giants such as Hearst and Rothermere as well as AP News also supported the Nazi cause. There was even an attempt to remove Churchill from his Parliamentary seat in the 1930s, for repeatedly speaking out and warning about the Nazi movement.

[cycle tramp]

So turning the clocks back to 1992 (or perhaps it was 1994) Michael Howard's criminal justice act found its way onto the statue books... back then I was still protesting..

So, what am I going to do now we have another public order bill?

...be grateful of all the things that have happened between then and now..
Back then global warming wasn't even believed and the science was openly derided, the department of transport wouldn't accept any

Not by all back then. Surprisingly, Mrs Thatcher in a 1989 speech to the UN said

“What we are now doing to the world, by degrading the land surfaces, by polluting the waters and by adding greenhouse gases to the air at an unprecedented rate — all this is new in the experience of the Earth,” she told the general assembly. “It is mankind and his activities which are changing the environment of our planet in damaging and dangerous ways.”

Sadly while Mrs Thatcher may have said such a thing, her government was also responsible for blocking a proposal two days earlier at a conference in the Netherlands for a 20% reduction of CO2 emissions by 2005*. It was Mrs Thatcher, after all, who proclaimed that 'Nothing should stop the great car economy' and I suspect was instrumental in the lack of political support for a return to wide spread bicycle use...
...clearly a case of a politician saying one thing, whilst doing something completely different.

(*indeed if the UK had been supportive of this move, we may now be in a position of carefully managing our CO2 production)

[pete75]

So turning the clocks back to 1992 (or perhaps it was 1994) Michael Howard's criminal justice act found its way onto the statue books... back then I was still protesting..

So, what am I going to do now we have another public order bill?

...be grateful of all the things that have happened between then and now..
Back then global warming wasn't even believed and the science was openly derided, the department of transport wouldn't accept any

Not by all back then. Surprisingly, Mrs Thatcher in a 1989 speech to the UN said

“What we are now doing to the world, by degrading the land surfaces, by polluting the waters and by adding greenhouse gases to the air at an unprecedented rate — all this is new in the experience of the Earth,” she told the general assembly. “It is mankind and his activities which are changing the environment of our planet in damaging and dangerous ways.”

Sadly while Mrs Thatcher may have said such a thing, her government was also responsible for blocking a proposal two days earlier at a conference in the Netherlands for a 20% reduction of CO2 emissions by 2005*. It was Mrs Thatcher, after all, who proclaimed that 'Nothing should stop the great car economy' and I suspect was instrumental in the lack of political support for a return to wide spread bicycle use...
...clearly a case of a politician saying one thing, whilst doing something completely different.

(*indeed if the UK had been supportive of this move, we may now be in a position of carefully managing our CO2 production)

There's no may about it, she did say it and it's a matter of historical record.

[cycle tramp]

There's no may about it, she did say it and it's a matter of historical record.

Yeah... I was being polite. Because I used the word 'may', I only suggested that she was a professional hypocritic, and not as you have pointed out, an actual professional hypocritic.
The time to be concerned about global warming was two days before she made that speech and actually supported the proposal in Netherlands for cutting 20% of CO2 by 2005...
.. I mean to be fair at the UN Conference, after refusing to support cutting co2 emissions, Mrs Thatcher may have just as well performed a strip tease to the Pet Shop Boys 'let's make lots of money' whilst film footage of the sinking of the Belgrano played in the back ground, for all the relevance her speech had..
..but hey, you're right she did say those things, even if it meant absolutely nothing to her.. well done Mrs T

[pete75]

There's no may about it, she did say it and it's a matter of historical record.

Yeah... I was being polite. Because I used the word 'may', I only suggested that she was a professional hypocritic, and not as you have pointed out, an actual professional hypocritic.
The time to be concerned about global warming was two days before she made that speech and actually supported the proposal in Netherlands for cutting 20% of CO2 by 2005...
.. I mean to be fair at the UN Conference, after refusing to support cutting co2 emissions, Mrs Thatcher may have just as well performed a strip tease to the Pet Shop Boys 'let's make lots of money' whilst film footage of the sinking of the Belgrano played in the back ground, for all the relevance her speech had..
..but hey, you're right she did say those things, even if it meant absolutely nothing to her.. well done Mrs T

She just wasn't bothered about it. She knew major problems wouldn't come until well after she was gone. The woman was also very ideogically driven and teh measures needed were very much against her ideology. Rthaer than being hypocritical she was being consistent and, besides, any action would be to the detriment of big money, Tory donating businesses.

[Pinhead]

I have had AirZound on my three bikes forever, well 12 years and would not be without them, it IS and AIR horn plain and simple

Cool! Having had two instances which may have been prevented by me using something louder than my voice I've always thought about getting one - however the reports I read seemed to imply the build quality would mean that they'd only last a couple of years - however I'm heartened by the fact that you've not said a bad word about them in the 12 years that you've used them..

..I'm now thinking about getting one..

FOUR years in use, FIVE left to stand

Pumped up this month

100% A1

[DaveReading]

PS I see that Psamathe has now responded saying they are ignored by their own MP. (Not that they wrote and were ignored on this issue)

Yes, I suppose it's possible that they didn't write to their MP, who then ignored the fact that they hadn't written to him/her ...

[Psamathe]

PS I see that Psamathe has now responded saying they are ignored by their own MP. (Not that they wrote and were ignored on this issue)

Yes, I suppose it's possible that they didn't write to their MP, who then ignored the fact that they hadn't written to him/her ...

After quite a lot of years having all my correspondence ignored one has to realise that you (or rather I) am wasting my time. I do strill write occasionally but it's a bit like bashing your head against a brick wall - the wall ignores you.

Ian

[mjr]

I do strill write occasionally but it's a bit like bashing your head against a brick wall - the wall ignores you.

I've likened some cycle campaign letters to politicians to screaming into the abyss: sometimes you hear an echo and you realise not all the opposition is so deep... that's why we persist. People do sometimes change their minds, for various reasons.

[ThePinkOne]

It's a bad law. Repeal and try again.

Yes, it is a bad law.

Monbiot says this, "These are the state-of-emergency laws you would expect in the aftermath of a coup .... We are being compelled by law to accept the destruction of the living world."

I agree with both his points, although I'd suggest the destruction of the living world could yet be as much that of the steady removals of the right to free expression and free speech as AGW.

Perhaps if Monbiot and his ilk had stood up to support the rights of those who didn't want to take an experimental vaccine, and perhaps if the Guardian et al had not been so unquestioningly (indeed enthusiastically) pro-lockdown, we wouldn't be in this situation of bad laws getting through so easily. The govt tried some stuff out in 2020 and found out that the general public will in fact tolerate a lot of repression if it's packaged in a palatable way- especially if they can "other" the dissenter. Not really a surprise to anyone who studies the work of Milgram (Stanford experiment) and other work by Zimbardo looking at societal dynamics.

TPO

[cycle tramp]

Who waited?

Thanks

Jonathan

Who on this forum did anything about this when it was still going through Parliament?

What did you do?

If the House of Lords couldn't stop it, what can any of us do?
We get a cross on a bit of paper every five years or so. Once elected our masters in Westminster pass laws to make us do what they want us to do and laws to stop us from doing things they don't want us to do. They use our money to finance their police force to impose their will,by force if needs be.

Silly anarchist riddle
'Question: Imagine you're in a black room, you can't see the doors, how do you get out?
Answer: You stop imagining you're in a black room'

And thus it is with government and police and everything. They're just a belief system. As soon as you stop believing in them they have no power over the range of choices you have. Every police person and every government official has actually worked out there is far less of them, than there are of us (depending where you are, the ratio could be 1:30) Their power only derives from persuading us, the populace that we don't have any. If we realised we have, we would simply out number them.

As it's a long Bank Holiday why not enjoy a nice film... personally I'd recommend 'The Truman show' followed by 'Fight Club' and last 'V for Vendetta'

[pete75]

Who on this forum did anything about this when it was still going through Parliament?

What did you do?

If the House of Lords couldn't stop it, what can any of us do?
We get a cross on a bit of paper every five years or so. Once elected our masters in Westminster pass laws to make us do what they want us to do and laws to stop us from doing things they don't want us to do. They use our money to finance their police force to impose their will,by force if needs be.

Silly anarchist riddle
'Question: Imagine you're in a black room, you can't see the doors, how do you get out?
Answer: You stop imagining you're in a black room'

And thus it is with government and police and everything. They're just a belief system. As soon as you stop believing in them they have no power over the range of choices you have. Every police person and every government official has actually worked out there is far less of them, than there are of us (depending where you are, the ratio could be 1:30) Their power only derives from persuading us, the populace that we don't have any. If we realised we have, we would simply out number them.

As it's a long Bank Holiday why not enjoy a nice film... personally I'd recommend 'The Truman show' followed by 'Fight Club' and last 'V for Vendetta'

No, their power stems from the ability to inflict armed force. Do you think any of the right wing, establishment brain washed folk in the police force would hesitate to use fatal force against the public?

[cycle tramp]

If the House of Lords couldn't stop it, what can any of us do?

And thus it is with government and police and everything. They're just a belief system. As soon as you stop believing in them they have no power over the range of choices you have. Every police person and every government official has actually worked out there is far less of them, than there are of us (depending where you are, the ratio could be 1:30) Their power only derives from persuading us, the populace that we don't have any. If we realised we have, we would simply out number them.

No, their power stems from the ability to inflict armed force. Do you think any of the right wing, establishment brain washed folk in the police force would hesitate to use fatal force against the public?

'Behind this mask is more than a man, behind this mask is an idea.......and ideas are bullet proof'
V for Vendetta

'First you gotta know - not fear, but know, that some day you are gonna die'
Fight Club