Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post Reply
sore thumb
Posts: 242
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 10:27am

Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by sore thumb »

It looks like the new Public Order Act has had the unintended consequences of essentially making it illegal for a cyclist to carry a bike lock and also a cyclist could be arrested if locking up their bicycle, if it impedes just one person.

I would like to know what legal advice Cycling UK can now give to members to reassure them that this law won’t be used t against cyclists going about their innocent public activities.



“11. The offence can also be committed where someone attaches an “object” to a person, another “object” or the land. Again, the ambiguity and vagueness of this wording is cause for serious concern. It would appear that the police would be fully justified in arresting someone for thoughtlessly locking up their bicycle where it might impede more than one person walking down the street, or someone who ties up their dog outside of a café while getting a coffee where the dog causes disruptive noise or otherwise impedes pedestrians.
12. Though, as stated by Baroness Williams, “t is a defence for a person to prove that they had a reasonable excuse for carrying the equipment in question. For example, carrying a bike lock for the purposes of locking one’s bike to a designated space for bikes could be considered a reasonable excuse”, it is surely alarming that people will need to have “reasonable excuses” for carrying out these peaceful actions in order to avoid the potential for up to 51 weeks in prison and an unlimited fine. The remit of the criminal conduct must be more narrowly confined, as it is highly concerning that individuals can be arrested and charged for actions such as locking up their bicycle.”

https://files.justice.org.uk/wp-content ... y-2022.pdf

Also

Section 2 of the Bill also makes it an offence simply for ‘being equipped for locking on’.

This is perhaps a more challenging and alarming provision and it holds that someone commits an offence if they have in their possession ‘outside a dwelling’, i.e. in public, equipment that may be used for ‘locking on’. As pointed out by JUSTICE, an object could be as simple as having a bike lock in your bag. This is concerning, as unrelated and perfectly innocent public activities could land you with a fine and act as a strike towards the above-mentioned offences, possibly resulting in a prison sentence.

https://www.gmlaw.org.uk/2022/09/13/no- ... rder-bill/

I’m concerned that people will make complaints about cyclists, cyclists locking their bikes up and the police now have powers that could be used to arrest cyclists just for carrying a bike lock or locking their bike to none bicycle designed stands such as a lamppost. One law designed for one purpose could be used in ways it was not designed for?

Thoughts?
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by mjr »

The same thought did occur to me while locking my bike up today, that it may now arguably be illegal just to carry a D lock in your bag, especially if the bike has been secured with a friend's lock and left elsewhere.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by simonineaston »

Just an innocent Q. - is the book 1984 still on the school syllabus, these days... ?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
sore thumb
Posts: 242
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 10:27am

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by sore thumb »

A few circumstances that came to mind where this law could be used against cyclists directly could be :-

At a local cycling organised group that want to protest against a cycle path being removed or maybe a cycling die-in to protest against cyclist deaths. Any cyclists that turn up with a bike lock could get arrested.

Or maybe a local shopping centre landowners security are not happy where you have locked your bike, and call the police to get you arrested
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by thirdcrank »

Somewhere in my vast back catalogue of posts, there's an explanation of why it might be illegal to carry a sheet of paper eg if you intended to use it to facilitate a crime of arson (causing criminal damage by fire.)
Jdsk
Posts: 24635
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:47pm Somewhere in my vast back catalogue of posts, there's an explanation of why it might be illegal to carry a sheet of paper eg if you intended to use it to facilitate a crime of arson (causing criminal damage by fire.)
"Garden Court barrister threatened with arrest if he wrote ‘not my King’ on blank sheet of paper":
https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/09/gard ... -of-paper/
https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/sta ... 9831164932

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24635
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Jdsk »

sore thumb wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:44pm A few circumstances that came to mind where this law could be used against cyclists directly could be :-

At a local cycling organised group that want to protest against a cycle path being removed or maybe a cycling die-in to protest against cyclist deaths. Any cyclists that turn up with a bike lock could get arrested.

Or maybe a local shopping centre landowners security are not happy where you have locked your bike, and call the police to get you arrested
Yes.

Or you arrive by bike at a gathering not related to cycling...

Jonathan
Stevek76
Posts: 2085
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Stevek76 »

thirdcrank wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:47pm Somewhere in my vast back catalogue of posts, there's an explanation of why it might be illegal to carry a sheet of paper eg if you intended to use it to facilitate a crime of arson (causing criminal damage by fire.)
sore thumb wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:27pm
Section 2 of the Bill also makes it an offence simply for ‘being equipped for locking on’.

This is perhaps a more challenging and alarming provision and it holds that someone commits an offence if they have in their possession ‘outside a dwelling’, i.e. in public, equipment that may be used for ‘locking on’. As pointed out by JUSTICE, an object could be as simple as having a bike lock in your bag. This is concerning, as unrelated and perfectly innocent public activities could land you with a fine and act as a strike towards the above-mentioned offences, possibly resulting in a prison sentence.

https://www.gmlaw.org.uk/2022/09/13/no- ... rder-bill/
No intent necessary here.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
sore thumb
Posts: 242
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 10:27am

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by sore thumb »

We have seen cases where cyclists have sworn on their own cameras when they have been nearly killed by a drivers actions, the cyclists have submitted these videos to police and then the police have threatened the cyclist with a public order offence.

Don’t think that the police won’t use these powers against cyclists if and when they see fit.

CyclingUK need to give some advice to members or a statement on this law and how it could affect cyclists.

As well as a bike lock, I also carry a tiny amount of superglue and the rubber glue if I need to make repairs. I also carry small amount of gaffa tape again for repairs. I also carry some pliers which also has a tiny knife on for repairs. All these items that a few weeks ago were legal could carrying them now be used as an excuse to arrest a cyclist?
Last edited by sore thumb on 8 May 2023, 6:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
Posts: 24635
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Jdsk »

sore thumb wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:27pm It looks like the new Public Order Act has had the unintended consequences of essentially making it illegal for a cyclist to carry a bike lock and also a cyclist could be arrested if locking up their bicycle, if it impedes just one person.

I would like to know what legal advice Cycling UK can now give to members to reassure them that this law won’t be used t against cyclists going about their innocent public activities.
...
I've let the Campaigns team know about this thread.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 8 May 2023, 6:41pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by mjr »

sore thumb wrote: 8 May 2023, 6:17pm I also carry some pliers which also has a tiny knife on for repairs. All these items that a few weeks ago were legal could carrying them now be used as an excuse to arrest a cyclist?
I often carry a small folding tree saw if it's a route I don't use much and I know can get obstructed by overgrowth after storms. That may well be a problem too. I make sure it's not in my bag when going to protest!

On the flip side, I foolishly took a flip multi tool into Parliament, only realising as I approached security. The guards did ask how I travelled and why I was visiting, and then allowed me to keep it, despite the weapon potential. The main houses weren't sitting at the time, which may make a difference.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
gaz
Posts: 14649
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by gaz »

thirdcrank wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:47pm Somewhere in my vast back catalogue of posts, ...
viewtopic.php?p=925981#p925981
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by thirdcrank »

Stevek76 wrote: 8 May 2023, 6:06pm
thirdcrank wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:47pm Somewhere in my vast back catalogue of posts, there's an explanation of why it might be illegal to carry a sheet of paper eg if you intended to use it to facilitate a crime of arson (causing criminal damage by fire.)
sore thumb wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:27pm
Section 2 of the Bill also makes it an offence simply for ‘being equipped for locking on’.

This is perhaps a more challenging and alarming provision and it holds that someone commits an offence if they have in their possession ‘outside a dwelling’, i.e. in public, equipment that may be used for ‘locking on’. As pointed out by JUSTICE, an object could be as simple as having a bike lock in your bag. This is concerning, as unrelated and perfectly innocent public activities could land you with a fine and act as a strike towards the above-mentioned offences, possibly resulting in a prison sentence.

https://www.gmlaw.org.uk/2022/09/13/no- ... rder-bill/
No intent necessary here.
I've not read the Bill, but I have read the linked document which includes:-
7. Under the proposals, individuals would commit the offence of locking on and be subject to

up to 51 weeks in prison and an unlimited fine where:

(a) they intentionally attached themselves, someone else or an “object” to another
person, “object” or land;

(b) this causes, or is capable of causing, serious disruption to more than one person
or an organisation, in a place that is not a dwelling; and

(c) the individual either intends or is reckless to the action causing such serious
disruption.(My bold)
(I hope I've preserved the formatting)
Jdsk
Posts: 24635
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 8 May 2023, 9:01pm
Stevek76 wrote: 8 May 2023, 6:06pm
thirdcrank wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:47pm Somewhere in my vast back catalogue of posts, there's an explanation of why it might be illegal to carry a sheet of paper eg if you intended to use it to facilitate a crime of arson (causing criminal damage by fire.)
sore thumb wrote: 8 May 2023, 5:27pm
Section 2 of the Bill also makes it an offence simply for ‘being equipped for locking on’.

This is perhaps a more challenging and alarming provision and it holds that someone commits an offence if they have in their possession ‘outside a dwelling’, i.e. in public, equipment that may be used for ‘locking on’. As pointed out by JUSTICE, an object could be as simple as having a bike lock in your bag. This is concerning, as unrelated and perfectly innocent public activities could land you with a fine and act as a strike towards the above-mentioned offences, possibly resulting in a prison sentence.

https://www.gmlaw.org.uk/2022/09/13/no- ... rder-bill/
No intent necessary here.
I've not read the Bill, but I have read the linked document which includes:-
7. Under the proposals, individuals would commit the offence of locking on and be subject to

up to 51 weeks in prison and an unlimited fine where:

(a) they intentionally attached themselves, someone else or an “object” to another
person, “object” or land;

(b) this causes, or is capable of causing, serious disruption to more than one person
or an organisation, in a place that is not a dwelling; and

(c) the individual either intends or is reckless to the action causing such serious
disruption.(My bold)
(I hope I've preserved the formatting)
There's a lot of articles linked from that gmlaw page.

Did you mean the briefing by Justice, dated May 2022?:
https://files.justice.org.uk/wp-content ... y-2022.pdf

Thanks

Jonathan
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by thirdcrank »

I thought it was clear that I was referring to the link immediately above the comment
No intent necessary here
I assure you that I have quoted it in the utmost good faith as being a relevant bit of the link apparently being used to contradict me. If you feel the need to check now I've copied and pasted it please feel free.
Post Reply