Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

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Psamathe
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Psamathe »

Some cyclists use those "Air Zound" things. Never heard one but how does the volume compare to rape alarms - given people were arrested for rape alarms.

Ian
pete75
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by pete75 »

Pebble wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:32am
pete75 wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:23am
Pebble wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:02am I would guess if you have both a bicycle and bicycle lock with you at the same time the police will understand. Difficulties will arise when you are at or near a potential target for pinko subversives with a bicycle lock, a copy of the guardian and no bicycle. The police can work these things out, ello ello ello, whats going on ere then?
Yes but a lot of the people you describe as "pinko subversives" ride bicycles.
Mind you, a lot of subversives are likely to come from your side of the political spectrum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64399335
https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/p ... ould-we-be
I don't have a side, perfectly balanced on top of that political fence, a lonely place at times.
The fact you describe those demonstrating against climate change and/or in favour of republicanism as "pinko subversives" shows you're very much on one side of the fence. Both are perectly legitimate causes.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:34am
pete75 wrote: 12 May 2023, 9:29am If this can happen then it's quite possible someone will be arrested for having their bicycle lock on them.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... t-stop-oil

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals ... sters.html
I saw that report (and the victim being interviewed) on TV last night and found it very worrying on many levels.

Using the legislation to arrest completely innocent bystander.
The victim now has an arrest on her record impacting CRB (or whatever it's called) checks, visas for travel to many foreign countries, etc.

Her complaint seems to have just been "dismissed" by the two forces resonsible. Met passed it to Lincoln 'cos the arreting officer was from Lincoln Force who seem to have just dismissed it. But as victim pointed out, it was the Met who held her for 13 hours.

Plus, whilst I'm an increasingly staunch republican, the victim decided to spend her time watching a "once in a lifetime" (we are told) event for a system she supports and the Police turned it into a nightmare with lifelong impacts for her.

I'm also disappointed at how the Met have on occasions justified their behaviour on the basis that the party went smoothly - but if you round-up anybody who can spell "Republic" guess is it a surprise it "goes smoothly".

Ian
That arrest could have an effect on her as an Australian national living here. If she leaves the country it may affect her ability to re-enter the UK.
Doubt it'll be a "once in a lifetime" event for many. For anyone over about 70 it's a second coronation and most of those under 70 should be around for the next one.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
atoz
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by atoz »

Pebble wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:02am I would guess if you have both a bicycle and bicycle lock with you at the same time the police will understand. Difficulties will arise when you are at or near a potential target for pinko subversives with a bicycle lock, a copy of the guardian and no bicycle. The police can work these things out, ello ello ello, whats going on ere then?
Do you count as a pinko subversive if you wear a pink jersey? I only mention it as the Giro d'Italia is currently running. Mussolini was not in favour of the maglia Rosa, apparently, he thought it wasn't manly, but even he had to accept it. I was under the impression we'd moved on from such ridiculous tropes, but obviously I was wrong..so I shall wear a pink jersey (not THE pink jersey) during the Giro, and if that labels me as a pinko subversive, I shall consider myself as in good company. Andiamo!
pete75
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by pete75 »

atoz wrote: 12 May 2023, 2:43pm
Pebble wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:02am I would guess if you have both a bicycle and bicycle lock with you at the same time the police will understand. Difficulties will arise when you are at or near a potential target for pinko subversives with a bicycle lock, a copy of the guardian and no bicycle. The police can work these things out, ello ello ello, whats going on ere then?
Do you count as a pinko subversive if you wear a pink jersey? I only mention it as the Giro d'Italia is currently running. Mussolini was not in favour of the maglia Rosa, apparently, he thought it wasn't manly, but even he had to accept it. I was under the impression we'd moved on from such ridiculous tropes, but obviously I was wrong..
Here's one of them, and no it's not Elvis.......

Image
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Labrat
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Labrat »

mjr wrote: 12 May 2023, 12:05pm Does anyone really feel that it is good to have a badly-written over-broad rushed-through law, just because you don't expect the police to use it as written? And how can you reasonably expect that when police have already used that law in what they call "regrettable" ways to arrest people?

It's a bad law. Repeal and try again.
Few people on the ‘political left’ were overly bothered about overly-broad or otherwise defective & fundamentally flawed legislation being rushed through when it involved firearm restrictions, or hunting with hounds, or dangerous dogs, were they?

Regardless, the legal position regarding this Australian woman’s arrest has been established for some time.
IMG_7886.jpeg
The police are given an often impossible job to do (see recent uproar over shooting two dogs). Mistakes happen, some people need to get over themselves.
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Pinhead
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Pinhead »

I have had AirZound on my three bikes forever, well 12 years and would not be without them, it IS and AIR horn plain and simple
AUTISTIC and proud
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mjr
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by mjr »

Labrat wrote: 12 May 2023, 3:54pm
mjr wrote: 12 May 2023, 12:05pm Does anyone really feel that it is good to have a badly-written over-broad rushed-through law, just because you don't expect the police to use it as written? And how can you reasonably expect that when police have already used that law in what they call "regrettable" ways to arrest people?

It's a bad law. Repeal and try again.
Few people on the ‘political left’ were overly bothered about overly-broad or otherwise defective & fundamentally flawed legislation being rushed through when it involved firearm restrictions, or hunting with hounds, or dangerous dogs, were they?
Firstly, so what? I didn't ask about "people on the political left", nor any law in particular. I asked if anyone feels it's good to have bad laws and let the police choose not to enforce them. Do you?

Secondly, not commenting about the others, but the law against hunting with hounds had been coming since soon after WW2, so even if it is "defective", it was hardly rushed through.
The police are given an often impossible job to do (see recent uproar over shooting two dogs). Mistakes happen, some people need to get over themselves.
And the mistakes should be corrected, don't you think?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Sum
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Sum »

mjr wrote: 12 May 2023, 12:05pm
Sum wrote: 12 May 2023, 10:55am In that scenario I would hope considerately locking your bike somewhere would avoid the issue in the first place, or if offense was given somehow, you could de-escalate the situation by moving the bike elsewhere. I wouldn't expect in those circumstances to be accused of being a protestor and carted off under Public Order Act 2023.
Does anyone really feel that it is good to have a badly-written over-broad rushed-through law, just because you don't expect the police to use it as written? And how can you reasonably expect that when police have already used that law in what they call "regrettable" ways to arrest people?

It's a bad law. Repeal and try again.
I'm not defending the Public Order Act 2023, indeed I've already said what I think about it here. The guidance given for the Act by the CPS and College of Policing describes how it should be used for the policing of protests and events, so it's reasonable to think they would use it for that, and not for anything else. And so far they've seemed to have used (and abused) it for that purpose, albeit in "regrettable" ways as you say.

It's a bad law but it's here for now until it's repealed. We've already seen how it and other laws like it can be used on protestors and other folk caught up in protests within gatherings, but the OP has asked the question of whether the Public Order Act 2023 can be used in ways it was not designed for, and it's an interesting question.

As a known cycling enthusiast at work, I tend to get asked questions regarding cycle-related news, and the news is already reporting that "legal expert warns even cyclists could be detained under the new law." https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/17690 ... cy-warning. It's not clear if the article is referring to cyclists being detained in connection with protests and events, or whether it's referring to other contexts, such as going shopping as the OP has suggested. If the latter I'm bound to be asked whether its credible or simply fear mongering.
cycle tramp
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

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cycle tramp
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

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thirdcrank
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by thirdcrank »

It was only when I was watching HIGNFY last night that I realised that this legislation was enacted earlier this month - 2 May 2023

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... view=plain

The stuff quoted in the OP and on which quite a lot of this thread seems to depend was from a document published by Justice in May 2022 when this legislation was in the early stages of its parliamentary progress.
Psamathe
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Psamathe »

Labrat wrote: 12 May 2023, 3:54pm
mjr wrote: 12 May 2023, 12:05pm Does anyone really feel that it is good to have a badly-written over-broad rushed-through law, just because you don't expect the police to use it as written? And how can you reasonably expect that when police have already used that law in what they call "regrettable" ways to arrest people?

It's a bad law. Repeal and try again.
Few people on the ‘political left’ were overly bothered about overly-broad or otherwise defective & fundamentally flawed legislation being rushed through when it involved firearm restrictions, or hunting with hounds, or dangerous dogs, were they?

Regardless, the legal position regarding this Australian woman’s arrest has been established for some time.

IMG_7886.jpeg

The police are given an often impossible job to do (see recent uproar over shooting two dogs). Mistakes happen, some people need to get over themselves.
I agree that "mistakes will happen" but the Police need to be aware that 'mistakes will happen" and part of the (pre?) arrest procedures should be to quickly identify the mistakes and rectify them i.e. not hold a "mistake" for 13 hours and hope the "mistake" does not raise a complaint.

As I understand it being arrested remains of your record for life/years and needs to be declared e.g. for many visas which then need further information often meaning you can't get an online e-visa ..., probably on a CRB check (or whatever it's called). My understanding is that only a court can expunge an arrest from your records so when Police make "a mistake" do they apply to the court to have the arrest removed from your record?

Police need to do far more when they make "a mistake" rather than the impacted individual having to do all the work pushing and pushing against a resistant Force.

Ian
thirdcrank
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by thirdcrank »

Read the Act itself - linked above - and it has this near the start:-
Be it enacted by the King’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Perhaps the people to lobby were the "Commons" when it was in its earlier stages. As noted right at the beginning of this thread, there were those drawing attention to potential faults in the law so it's not been smuggled in under cover of darkness.

Waiting till it's been enacted then blaming the police for its enactment seems a bit rich to me.
Jdsk
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Re: Illegal to carry a bike lock & arrestable offence if locking your bike up impedes others

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 13 May 2023, 11:58am Read the Act itself - linked above - and it has this near the start:-
Be it enacted by the King’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Perhaps the people to lobby were the "Commons" when it was in its earlier stages. As noted right at the beginning of this thread, there were those drawing attention to potential faults in the law so it's not been smuggled in under cover of darkness.

Waiting till it's been enacted then blaming the police for its enactment seems a bit rich to me.
Who waited?

Thanks

Jonathan
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