RLJers and.......RLJers

[Spider]

There is a difference between going through a red light on a bike at pedestrian like speed, being aware of surroundings and offering no danger to others - and hurtling through a junction at breakneck speed, with no regard for pedestrians or other road users.

Just wanted to raise this point as a lot of the debates and opinions - particulary a Cycling Plus columnist this month - seem to forget that, apart from the very rare incidence of a cyclist causing death / injury, in which case the perpetrators are better described as loonies than cyclists - cyclists are really comparable to pedestrians in terms of the danger they pose.

It seems to me that all this internecine hatred is really giving fuel to the motorists and boy racers who think cyclists are fair game for bad driving and abuse.

[Yorkshireman]

It would possibly be better if all road users observed the law regarding use of the road system (at least there might be a bit more predictability regarding what others will be doing next). I doubt very much that drivers who drive badly around cyclists would modify their driving habits even if all cyclists observed all the laws and road traffic acts. Cyclists are in no way similar to pedestrians in the danger they may pose to other road users (just my opinions)

[thirdcrank]

There is a difference between going through a red light on a bike at pedestrian like speed, being aware of surroundings and offering no danger to others - and hurtling through a junction at breakneck speed, with no regard for pedestrians or other road users.

Yes: the first is failing to comply with a traffic sign and would probably be regarded as careless cycling. The second might also be reckless or dangerous cycling.

[JQ666]

There is a difference between going through a red light on a bike at pedestrian like speed, being aware of surroundings and offering no danger to others - and hurtling through a junction at breakneck speed, with no regard for pedestrians or other road users.

Going through at "pedestrian like speed" would suggest the cyclist has dismounted and is wheeling his / her bike through - I have to confess, I have never seen anyone doing this.

All the RLJ'ing I see tends to be of the "hurtling" variety. The cyclist's reason for the RLJ is personal to them, but whatever that reason, it seems that getting across the junction / crossing quickly is deemed the safest method of RLJ'ing.

[kwackers]

Going through at "pedestrian like speed" would suggest the cyclist has dismounted and is wheeling his / her bike through - I have to confess, I have never seen anyone doing this.

All the RLJ'ing I see tends to be of the "hurtling" variety. The cyclist's reason for the RLJ is personal to them, but whatever that reason, it seems that getting across the junction / crossing quickly is deemed the safest method of RLJ'ing.

I've jumped off and legged it through the lights.

Ever since I joined this forum I've kept my eye out for RLJ'ing cycles, (I've seen them before but never took much notice.)

What I see is cycles RLJ'ing all the time, but in every case they've ridden to the junction, checked then cycled across/turned left etc (Never seen anyone turn right - they always wait...)

This high speed sprint across junctions everyone goes on about must happen in other parts of the country - and to a lot of very lucky cyclists...

[thirdcrank]

This high speed sprint across junctions everyone goes on about must happen in other parts of the country - and to a lot of very lucky cyclists...

It's not so long ago we had a long thread on here about a cyclist passing a light at red who was hit and killed by a car being driven at some speed.

The point is IMO cyclists have more to gain than just about any other road users from strict enforcement of the law and self-discipline in compliance.

[kwackers]

This high speed sprint across junctions everyone goes on about must happen in other parts of the country - and to a lot of very lucky cyclists...

It's not so long ago we had a long thread on here about a cyclist passing a light at red who was hit and killed by a car being driven at some speed.

The point is IMO cyclists have more to gain than just about any other road users from strict enforcement of the law and self-discipline in compliance.

One cyclist hardly corresponds to the vast amount of empirical evidence of mass RLJ'ing and its dangers though...

Strict enforcement of the law is one thing - but unlikely to happen. The law and it's obedience is based on the statistical likelihood of being caught - which isn't very high.

[JQ666]

Going through at "pedestrian like speed" would suggest the cyclist has dismounted and is wheeling his / her bike through - I have to confess, I have never seen anyone doing this.

All the RLJ'ing I see tends to be of the "hurtling" variety. The cyclist's reason for the RLJ is personal to them, but whatever that reason, it seems that getting across the junction / crossing quickly is deemed the safest method of RLJ'ing.

I've jumped off and legged it through the lights.

Ever since I joined this forum I've kept my eye out for RLJ'ing cycles, (I've seen them before but never took much notice.)

What I see is cycles RLJ'ing all the time, but in every case they've ridden to the junction, checked then cycled across/turned left etc (Never seen anyone turn right - they always wait...)

This high speed sprint across junctions everyone goes on about must happen in other parts of the country - and to a lot of very lucky cyclists...

Well the guy who went straight through the lights last week and nearly took out my little girl did not RLJ in a considerate manner. I agree with TC, we can't get cross with motorists who decide which laws to adhere to and which to break, if we don't do the same ourselves. Would you advocate a car driver RLJ's if in his / her opinion it is safe to do so?

[kwackers]

Well the guy who went straight through the lights last week and nearly took out my little girl did not RLJ in a considerate manner. I agree with TC, we can't get cross with motorists who decide which laws to adhere to and which to break, if we don't do the same ourselves. Would you advocate a car driver RLJ's if in his / her opinion it is safe to do so?

Implying that because some cyclists break the law I don't see that it follows that cyclists in general can't complain about motorists who break the law. Where's the logic in that?

I just don't believe you're likely to stop cyclists RLJ'ing, I'm not even sure how you could go about trying.
So if we assume RLJ is here to stay - what next?

[JQ666]

So if we assume RLJ is here to stay - what next?

A petition?

[thirdcrank]

I think the point is we don't start trying to justify it by relativism.

It's illegal so saying it's OK just because it's somehow not as bad as other forms of breaking the law is humbug.

The justification implied in the OP that breaking the law is OK so long as you use your own judgment has a certain familiarity to it.

It is true that just because some cyclists break the law, it does not mean they all do, but it does make it harder for the rest to campaign effectively.

None of this is altered a jot by possibility that it is here to stay.

[kwackers]

I think the point is we don't start trying to justify it by relativism.

It's illegal so saying it's OK just because it's somehow not as bad as other forms of breaking the law is humbug.

The justification implied in the OP that breaking the law is OK so long as you use your own judgment has a certain familiarity to it.

It is true that just because some cyclists break the law, it does not mean they all do, but it does make it harder for the rest to campaign effectively.

None of this is altered a jot by possibility that it is here to stay.

All laws are relative, murder is badder than RLJ... Even when applied to individuals the punishments aren't the same, a £60 fine to me means a lot more than to Alan Sugar.
So I think relativism is a fact of life.

I think too much is made of the difficulty RLJ'ing does to campaigning, if we adopt a 'let he who is without sin' mantra then nobody in the world could do anything. The main reason motorists complain is because they feel cyclists are getting another over on them and they don't like it.

The motorist who overtook me last night leaving around 6 inches simply because I was occupying primary position was making a point for exactly the same reason. They don't want us there, RLJ's or not.
If you believe you can't fight your corner because some people on bikes don't obey the letter of the law, we're in a worse position than I feared...

[petercook80]

I agree, RLJ seems to be here to stay. I don't like it but not much I can do about it.
I think that if Policemen happens to see it he should act, (not sure what the fine is for cyclist RLJ) but other than that I don't see that much can be done. Cars can/could be caught by numberplates, but assigning police to catch cyclist RLJ would be a bit of a waste of Police time.

So I guess the answer is live with it and get on with other stuff.

[Wildduck]

Law breakers are a danger to others and themselves regardless. Should all be 'nicked'. Simple.

[kwackers]

Law breakers and a danger to others and themselves regardless. Should all be 'nicked'. Simple.

What's dangerous about giving way at a set of red lights?