Recumbent and hills?

[Tangled Metal]

When I bought my SMGT for touring I ride it as my commuter for almost 6 months before our tour in Brittany. Even with the very low gearing it never came close to being as easy on hills as my upright.

I remember a tour on my upright with a heavy single wheel trailer and a broken front derailleur that was stuck on the highway ring. I still got up the steep, Scottish hills 50t with a 11-25t cassette plus panniers and 90l trailer!

With 4 panniers 2 of which gave 70l capacity on my SMGT meant I pushed hills. With just one light pannier when not touring I still never found hills as easy as on my upright. I don't reckon it's a case of not having my bent legs because it was the bike I used most for many years. Ime uprights are easier than 2 wheeled recumbents on hills. Even with the lower gearing on my recumbent I struggled going uphill. I can ride my upright slowly uphill when steep, my SMGT stalls at that speed I find. The iupright I can virtually track stand on the steep bits.

[Grldtnr]

I shall try this next time I am on a hilly ride. It makes sense .

I adopt the same approach , have at it charge the hill, then gear down, might be over speeding for a little, but I keep at it, helps a lot that I have an hub / gear derailleur combo on the rear, I consider it a high / low range if it's getting to much , put it into Low range, still a notch to go on the gear., If all else fails grab the front wheels and push wheel chair style,, never get stuck starting on excessive gradients, but my front mudguards get in the way.
Benefits of a tadpole trike.

[Stradageek]

There's a trend emerging here. The HP Velotechnik StreetMachine/SpeedMachine does not climb well. Other recumbents are much better.

My Strada is great on hills and an Austrian I met confirmed that, whilst not great in a headwind, the P38 is possibly the ultimate hill climbing recumbent.

[Grldtnr]

I shall try this next time I am on a hilly ride. It makes sense .

I adopt the same approach , have at it charge the hill, then gear down, might be over speeding for a little, but I keep at it, helps a lot that I have an hub / gear derailleur combo on the rear, I consider it a high / low range if it's getting to much , put it into Low range, still a notch to go on the gear., If all else fails grab the front wheels and push wheel chair style,, never get stuck starting on excessive gradients, but my front mudguards get in the way.
Benefits of a tadpole trike.

[recumbent Jimm]

If you go with a trike, one with a 20" rear wheel will give you lower gears and, on a tadpole trike, more traction in the wet (generally) because the rear axle is nearer the seat and carries mor weight.

A few misnomers there. In short, with the right gearing setup, any wheel can climb hills.

Gearing for cycling is sooo diverse and near infinite in combination that wheel size is less of an issue related to gearing options now-a-days, compared to say...25-30 years ago. With the right combo of front and rear gearing internal or external, a 26" (for example) can gear down just as low as a 20" with standard gearing (whatever that might mean for the rider).

To the Original Poster - I've found that a little 200-250W E-assist does wonders for flattening out the hills, and not detract from the over-all comfort of riding under your own power. It''s there to *assist*, not take over, the experience.

Otherwise, gear down, as many have suggested, work on a good breathing technique, and 'spin' up the hill. You'll likely catch your fellow cyclists on the downhills or flats anyway. Your knees will thank you for it.

Oh and you *can* press against the seat to get a bit more power for climbing, but then why bother? Just spin happily and you'll get to where you are going.

20" is certainly an advantage when carrying loads or going around corners, as the shorter spokes tend to handle side-loading a bit better than their bigger cousins. I prefer 20"s and 16"s because of the more compact size. Often makes it easier getting into trains or backs of station wagons or hatchbacks.

Bear in mind that quite a few tadpole trikes designs (like Steintrikes for example), regardless of wheel size, are set far back to allow for more touring gear, or suspension, or stability, or all three. Usually your butt is nearer, if not betwixt, the front wheels so that the rear wheel is not loaded down very much, so traction *can* be an issue if you are not carrying anything back there to help hold it down.

[UpWrong]

I rode a hilly 30 miles around Kent yesterday, starting in Sevenoaks, which incidentally has zero cycle paths! The most useful thing I found was not to think about my feet at all but to focus on the upper leg when climbing, in particular lifting each knee. Some thoughts on pedalling technique for recumbents here, https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com/20 ... t-part-ii/

[UpWrong]

If you go with a trike, one with a 20" rear wheel will give you lower gears and, on a tadpole trike, more traction in the wet (generally) because the rear axle is nearer the seat and carries mor weight.

A few misnomers there. In short, with the right gearing setup, any wheel can climb hills.

Hmmm, all things being equal the smaller wheel gives you lower gearing. And getting below 15" with a 700c wheel and derailleur gears is hard, and has undesirable side effects because of the higher chain tension.

[a.twiddler]

I would agree with recumbent jimm. Nowadays any wheel can give you low gears. You might need a larger chainring to give you the higher gears with small wheels, but with set ups such as dual drive hubs it's not difficult to give any wheel size a good range for your purposes.
Wheels themselves have their own characteriscs. Small wheels theoretically accelerate better, but may not hold that speed so well due to less peripheral weight and sensitivity to road surface irregularities. Shorter spokes, so stronger and may resist side loads on trikes better. Maybe quicker steering, more manoevreability. Larger wheels theoretically accelerate more slowly but maintain that speed better being less sensitive to road surface and with more weight at the rim. May be a bit more fragile re side forces. Potentially better stability. In reality, once you've got used to a wheel size, they all do the job.

Supposedly better to spread the chain load over as many sprocket teeth as possible to minimise the chain tension but in reality with 11 tooth sprockets on the rear being common you can worry too much about such things. When it comes to climbing you'll be using bigger rear sprockets anyway. If you have got low enough gearing to suit your personal preferences, it's just a matter of getting on with it. I'm no great climber but I've been used to pretty low gears on an upright for years. That transfers well to riding a 2 wheel recumbent, I find. It's just a matter of practice and getting a smooth pedalling technique together with developing that state of mind that lets you accept that slow steady climbing is what it is. Of course you do better when you're fresh than at the end of a long ride. It's mind over meatware.

Trikes, not so much experience, but you can reduce to a ridiculously low gear without falling over if you need to, though I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm more of a 2 wheel person myself.

[Stradageek]

I rode a hilly 30 miles around Kent yesterday, starting in Sevenoaks, which incidentally has zero cycle paths! The most useful thing I found was not to think about my feet at all but to focus on the upper leg when climbing, in particular lifting each knee. Some thoughts on pedalling technique for recumbents here, https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com/20 ... t-part-ii/

I don't think I've ever seen a hill climbing DF/Recumbent comparison where power was measured at both the cranks and the rear axle together with heart rate etc for a fully recumbent and DF adapted rider - that would be interesting.

When climbing hard what I tend to do is to slide down into the seat slightly and press my shoulders hard into the seat back to counter a small tendency to lean forward. It does seem to help

[Tigerbiten]

My understanding from what I've read on the internet ......
The most stretched out you are, bigger foot-hip-shoulder angle, the less you engage your glutes and the more you rely on your quad.
This lowers your max sustained power output.
This is why you need to do a few thousand miles on a bent to build up a different level of fitness in the quads and build up your bent legs.
At speed above about 7-10 mph the aero advantage of riding a recumbent bike is greater than this power loss.
So on the flat you tend to go longer for less energy out on a bent bike.
But once the speed drops below this break even point then upwong bikes have an advantage.
The steeper the climb, the bigger the advantage is as you tend to fatigue quicker on a bent vs a bike if you try to climb at the same speed, all other things being equal.

As for my hill climbing technique, if I don't run out of gears down then there no difference to my technique on the flat.
A nice optimal cadence, light pressure on the pedals, so I spin my way up.
The only difference is my optimal cadence may be 10 rpm slower, so in the 60-70 rpm range uphill vs the 70-80 rpm range on the flat.
Why would I alter something that works for hours on the flat just because I'm going uphill.
If I run out of gears down then I'll do the equivalent of "getting out of the saddle", cut my cadence by roughly half and basically start to leg press my way up.
But with a 9.8" first gear on my bent trike, I'm more likely to run out of traction than gears down unless I'm on tour with a full camping load.

Luck .........

[threewheels]

Thank you everyone for your replies. They've been very useful. Factoring in what has been said I think I now need to do some test rides and hopefully find something that feels right and fits the bill

[Audax67]

"Scheißgerät steigt nicht!"* was what a German recumbent rider shouted as I passed him on my normal bike on a long hill out of Pont-à-Mousson in 2011. I believed him then and I still do.

* [appropriate word removed]-machine does not climb

[Psamathe]

"Scheißgerät steigt nicht!"* was what a German recumbent rider shouted as I passed him on my normal bike on a long hill out of Pont-à-Mousson in 2011. I believed him then and I still do.

* [appropriate word removed]-machine does not climb

What did he say as he raced past you on the downhill side of the hill?

When I purchased by bent I was told it's traditional on downhills to pedal slowly backwards as you charge past uprights going down hills.

Ian

[UpWrong]

"Scheißgerät steigt nicht!"* was what a German recumbent rider shouted as I passed him on my normal bike on a long hill out of Pont-à-Mousson in 2011. I believed him then and I still do.

* [appropriate word removed]-machine does not climb

Lol, probably an HP Velotechnic model.

[Audax67]

"Scheißgerät steigt nicht!"* was what a German recumbent rider shouted as I passed him on my normal bike on a long hill out of Pont-à-Mousson in 2011. I believed him then and I still do.

* [appropriate word removed]-machine does not climb

What did he say as he raced past you on the downhill side of the hill?

He didn't: it was a 10-km climb and I never saw him again. Now I come to think of it, it was Verdun, not P-à-M. 600k BRM out of Luxembourg.