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Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 15 May 2023, 6:53pm
by Tangled Metal
Interesting how you call out police state control when voter ID was a key recommendation on the OSCE election observer team's report on the 2010 General election. Over the years there's been quite a few recommendations i believe including:
Fixing constituencies so they have similar numbers of registered voters per constituency.
Removal of consequential numbers on the back of voting cards that can identify the voter,
Various improvements in voter registration system.
There's been a lot of recommendations for a fairer, more legitimate election system. I'm sure some even the left leaning majority on here will see as a good idea, possibly the ones that favour their favoured party/parties. I'm certain that whatever changes a tory government makes years after the independent election observers recommends it will be wrong and corrupt to many on here. Personally I find it hard to justify that position in light of these actions by the Tories was the recommendations of independent election monitors.
Does the left not agree with independent election observers recommendations? I'm certain there's been threads criticising other state's elections on the back of criticism from similar election observer organisations but when it's about our country it's about gerrymandering by the party in power not enacting, better late than never, the recommendations of independent observers.
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 15 May 2023, 7:51pm
by mjr
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 6:53pm
Interesting how you call out police state control when voter ID was a key recommendation on the OSCE election observer team's report on the 2010 General election.
Voter ID was a key recommendation for registration and postal voting, as you quoted above, yet this bunch of devious gerrymanderers brought it in only for in-person voting! So supporters cannot hide behind the OSCE for justification, who notably did not recommend this, especially when they haven't done several other things they did recommend.
Does the left not agree with independent election observers recommendations?
You'll have to ask them, but maybe you should be clear whether you're asking them about the recommendations, or the recent Voter ID farce.
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 15 May 2023, 9:11pm
by pete75
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 6:53pm
Interesting how you call out police state control when voter ID was a key recommendation on the OSCE election observer team's report on the 2010 General election. Over the years there's been quite a few recommendations i believe including:
Fixing constituencies so they have similar numbers of registered voters per constituency.
Removal of consequential numbers on the back of voting cards that can identify the voter,
Various improvements in voter registration system.
There's been a lot of recommendations for a fairer, more legitimate election system. I'm sure some even the left leaning majority on here will see as a good idea, possibly the ones that favour their favoured party/parties. I'm certain that whatever changes a tory government makes years after the independent election observers recommends it will be wrong and corrupt to many on here. Personally I find it hard to justify that position in light of these actions by the Tories was the recommendations of independent election monitors.
Does the left not agree with independent election observers recommendations? I'm certain there's been threads criticising other state's elections on the back of criticism from similar election observer organisations but when it's about our country it's about gerrymandering by the party in power not enacting, better late than never, the recommendations of independent observers.
A fairer system - yes. That would mean proportional representation , something those of you on the right oppose.
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 15 May 2023, 11:27pm
by Labrat
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 16 May 2023, 12:25am
by mjr
I can't tell whether this is sarcastically pointing out that some on the left also oppose fairer votes, which isn't contradicting anything Pete75 wrote, or that the current Labour party is on the right.
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 16 May 2023, 6:49pm
by Tangled Metal
pete75 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 9:11pm
A fairer system - yes. That would mean proportional representation , something those of you on the right oppose.
Oh so wrong! A suitable form of pr, end to Lords spiritual, lords temporal and constitutional monarchy. I also believe in a fair national identification system for voter registration and voting. I also believe in regional devolution of Northern England. Indeed I believe we need a full and equal federal, republican system I'm the UK such that what democracy we have us equal around the whole of the UK and less well off regions could eventually level up through such a system.
To put it simply, we need a complete revolution in our democratic system. We're a messed up country because of what the left and right wingers have done. We need centre right or centre left and new systems that remove power from Westminster and from big two parties.
Is that right wing enough for you! Lol!
PS I have never understood why you don't need voter ID or even to take your poll card with you to vote. So I per do still have right wing tendencies too. Although as an 18 year old I agreed with the ideas of communism but since human nature causes such fair systems to fail big time I became a more capitalist. Is there such a thing as capitalist communist?
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 17 May 2023, 2:24pm
by reohn2
Jacob Reece Mogg in his speech at the ultra rightwing conference yesterday claimed in his charachter assassination attempt on the government(which he also claimed were more leftwing than Labour
)and it's new law on voter ID had backfired on the government claimjng the new law was gerrymandering,he claimed it had had the opposite intended effect in that it was older and therefore more likely Tory voters,that didn't turn up to vote due to a lack of correct ID.
He didn't actually say what the new law's intentions were but it's obvious to some of us mere mortal plebs.
He also omitted to say say that he was a government minister when the law was conceptualized,funny that.....
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 17 May 2023, 3:33pm
by mjr
reohn2 wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 2:24pm
Jacob Reece Mogg in his speech at the ultra rightwing conference yesterday claimed in his charachter assassination attempt on the government(which he also claimed were more leftwing than Labour
)and it's new law on voter ID had backfired on the government claimjng the new law was gerrymandering,he claimed it had had the opposite intended effect in that it was older and therefore more likely Tory voters,that didn't turn up to vote due to a lack of correct ID.
That's interesting. The report I saw suggested that he claimed that more older/likely-Tory voters than expected didn't show up, not that he suggested it didn't also have the intended effect.
But yes, he did imply it was gerrymandering, which Rayner used at PMQs today.
He also omitted to say say that he was a government minister when the law was conceptualized,funny that.....
Yeah, hilarious(!) Collective responsibility of cabinets should die a firey death so we know if these chancers really opposed unpopular moves when it mattered.
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 17 May 2023, 4:53pm
by reohn2
mjr wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 3:33pm
reohn2 wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 2:24pm
Jacob Reece Mogg in his speech at the ultra rightwing conference yesterday claimed in his charachter assassination attempt on the government(which he also claimed were more leftwing than Labour
)and it's new law on voter ID had backfired on the government claimjng the new law was gerrymandering,he claimed it had had the opposite intended effect in that it was older and therefore more likely Tory voters,that didn't turn up to vote due to a lack of correct ID.
That's interesting. The report I saw suggested that he claimed that more older/likely-Tory voters than expected didn't show up, not that he suggested it didn't also have the intended effect.......
We're in agreement,read my post again
Here is JRM making an ass of himself again :-
https://youtube.com/shorts/zwqDJAyO5As?feature=share
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 19 May 2023, 11:30am
by pete75
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑16 May 2023, 6:49pm
pete75 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 9:11pm
A fairer system - yes. That would mean proportional representation , something those of you on the right oppose.
Oh so wrong! A suitable form of pr, end to Lords spiritual, lords temporal and constitutional monarchy. I also believe in a fair national identification system for voter registration and voting. I also believe in regional devolution of Northern England. Indeed I believe we need a full and equal federal, republican system I'm the UK such that what democracy we have us equal around the whole of the UK and less well off regions could eventually level up through such a system.
To put it simply, we need a complete revolution in our democratic system. We're a messed up country because of what the left and right wingers have done. We need centre right or centre left and new systems that remove power from Westminster and from big two parties.
Is that right wing enough for you! Lol!
PS I have never understood why you don't need voter ID or even to take your poll card with you to vote. So I per do still have right wing tendencies too. Although as an 18 year old I agreed with the ideas of communism but since human nature causes such fair systems to fail big time I became a more capitalist. Is there such a thing as capitalist communist?
You've stated here that you're right wing, more than once I believe.
Re: Voter Fraud
Posted: 20 May 2023, 9:55am
by atoz
mjr wrote: ↑16 May 2023, 12:25am
I can't tell whether this is sarcastically pointing out that some on the left also oppose fairer votes, which isn't contradicting anything Pete75 wrote, or that the current Labour party is on the right.
The real beneficiaries of first past the post are establishment politicians- Red Tory and Blue Tory. Unfortunately some on the trad left have taken far too long to "wake up and smell the coffee". You only need to look at the demographics of the 2019 election to see.