Issues with 10 speed HG-X and "quick links" ?

[zenitb]

I converted my tandem to a 10 speed Shimano LX setup at the rear (but retained 24-36-46 SPA/SJSC rings/chainset at the front).

Everything was fine at first but my tandem gets hammered over winter and I had some front chainring issues (loose bolts jamming the chain between chainrings, chain jumping off the big ring, chain jamming in the bottom bracket etc, now all resolved). This meant I broke the chain twice, and was forced to repair it "on the road" with generic quick links I bought on ebay.

I subsequently had lots off issues where at various chain angles the chain would jump sprokets at the rear and careful analysis on my garage servicing stand stand showed this was always happening as one of the two quick links went through the rear cassette.

Now as you may know, the HG-X chain is asymmetric, and my emerging theory on this is that my generic quick links different side profile makes them the first to jump off the cassette in any marginal chain angle scenario.

Either way I have put a new cassette and chain on now and have eschewed the Shimano "hardened pin". I simply spit and joined the chain in the traditional way by drifting one of the chain pins almost all the way out to split and then back in again to rejoin. Everything has been sweetness and light ever since with slick changes at the rear. I am now taking spare 10 speed chain segments with me rather than quicklinks.

I have blamed the quicklinks (workman? tools?) but I suppose an alternative theory is that the snapped link wasnt the only link affected and links nearby could have been very slightly twisted and my retention of the (invisibly twisted) links caused the bad shifts?

Quicklinks have been fine on my other HG (not HG-X) bikes, including my Shimano 105 11-speed setup, so I was wondering if anyone else has had this sort of hassle with them ? Or have they been fine for you? I am keen to learn from others experience on this one ...

[keyboardmonkey]

I converted my tandem to a 10 speed Shimano LX setup at the rear (but retained 24-36-46 SPA/SJSC rings/chainset at the front)...

Now as you may know, the HG-X chain is asymmetric, and my emerging theory on this is that my generic quick links different side profile makes them the first to jump off the cassette in any marginal chain angle scenario.

Either way I have put a new cassette and chain on now and have eschewed the Shimano "hardened pin". I simply sp[l]it and joined the chain in the traditional way by drifting one of the chain pins almost all the way out to split and then back in again to rejoin. Everything has been sweetness and light ever since with slick changes at the rear...

I'm not convinced that this is a good idea with a modern chain, zenitb.

[gxaustin]

Either way I have put a new cassette and chain on now and have eschewed the Shimano "hardened pin". I simply sp[l]it and joined the chain in the traditional way by drifting one of the chain pins almost all the way out to split and then back in again to rejoin. Everything has been sweetness and light ever since with slick changes at the rear...

I'm not convinced that this is a good idea with a modern chain, zenitb.

Thats just what I was thinking

[zenitb]

Either way I have put a new cassette and chain on now and have eschewed the Shimano "hardened pin". I simply sp[l]it and joined the chain in the traditional way by drifting one of the chain pins almost all the way out to split and then back in again to rejoin. Everything has been sweetness and light ever since with slick changes at the rear...

I'm not convinced that this is a good idea with a modern chain, zenitb.

Thats just what I was thinking

Well seems ok so far. We could see how it goes I guess ..?

[tim-b]

Shimano does say, "HG-X chain is not compatible with other road 10-speed systems" unless you're using other MTB components, of course

When you push the pin out you'll have noticed a narrow metal "washer" on the end of your chain tool. That pin is now waiting to fall out because you've removed the peened end that was holding it securely, hence lockable quick links or the special Shimano pin

[keyboardmonkey]

Shimano does say, "HG-X chain is not compatible with other road 10-speed systems" unless you're using other MTB components, of course

When you push the pin out you'll have noticed a narrow metal "washer" on the end of your chain tool. That pin is now waiting to fall out because you've removed the peened end that was holding it securely, hence lockable quick links or the special Shimano pin

I’ve read that. And yet I’ve also seen Shimano stating that the HG-X chain is suitable for 10-speed Road triples, specifically 4703.

Some related discussion here mixed up with other stuff:

https://road.cc/content/forum/parts-que ... ted-300955

Re the OP’s situation, I would be tempted to ditch the compromised HG-X chain and fit a non-directional chain such as a regular HG.

[iandusud]

I've generally been a big fan of Sram chains (formerly Sedisport) for decades, and avoided Shimano chains from the point they introduced the special hardened pin to join them. However a few years ago I needed a suitably long 10 speed chain for our tandem and the only one readily available was a Shimano HG54 directional chain. I used a quick link rather than the hardened pin to join it. It performed flawlessly and gave better shifts than with other chains. Also I was very impressed with how long it lasted. I'm now on my second one. I;m not certain which quick links I've used, but probably Sram. I suspect that the PO's original chain was damaged. As others have stated I wouldn't trust the chain where it has been riveted by the OP. It is not designed for this.

[peetee]

Are quick links considered suitable for the level of power transmitted through tandems and, by association, e-bikes?

[tim-b]

Are quick links considered suitable for the level of power transmitted through tandems and, by association, e-bikes?

Some are suitable for eBikes, look for the eBike series tag, e.g. https://www.kmcchain.com/en/series/ebike and https://www.kmcchain.com/en/product/con ... 2-12-speed

[zenitb]

Are quick links considered suitable for the level of power transmitted through tandems and, by association, e-bikes?

Agreed PeeTee...to some extent our tandem has similar requirements to an ebike. Two fairly strong cyclists pushing a heavy bike up hills puts a lot of strain on the drivetrain.

For the people who take Shimano's statements as gospel, Shimano dont currently have a groupset they approve for tandem use so thinking outside the box "comes with the territory" of tandem ownership.

This is one of the reasons I am interested in the Shimano Cues groupset longer term. Ebike components promise longer life and might take the "double load" a bit better than the current Shimano solo offerings.

[zenitb]

Are quick links considered suitable for the level of power transmitted through tandems and, by association, e-bikes?

Some are suitable for eBikes, look for the eBike series tag, e.g. https://www.kmcchain.com/en/series/ebike and https://www.kmcchain.com/en/product/con ... 2-12-speed

Very useful info Tim!!

[zenitb]

Shimano does say, "HG-X chain is not compatible with other road 10-speed systems" unless you're using other MTB components, of course

When you push the pin out you'll have noticed a narrow metal "washer" on the end of your chain tool. That pin is now waiting to fall out because you've removed the peened end that was holding it securely, hence lockable quick links or the special Shimano pin

I’ve read that. And yet I’ve also seen Shimano stating that the HG-X chain is suitable for 10-speed Road triples, specifically 4703.

Some related discussion here mixed up with other stuff:

https://road.cc/content/forum/parts-que ... ted-300955

Re the OP’s situation, I would be tempted to ditch the compromised HG-X chain and fit a non-directional chain such as a regular HG.

Shimanos E-bike chain looks quite expensive but it looks like they have finally seen sense and ditched the impractical "special pin". I know this means new block and probably shifter as well but it's possible this will be a better long term bet..particularly for tandem use. The LG in the part number below refers to LinkGlide .

[cyclop]

The quick links are only to be fitted the right way round,I,m assuming you did this ok ?

[zenitb]

The quick links are only to be fitted the right way round,I,m assuming you did this ok ?

Cyclops thanks for that - I didn't realise this so it's quite possible I put them the wrong way round. I am off to check the quicklinks I used now..presumably they are marked such??

[mig]

they're usually marked with an indication of "forward" in terms of the chain run although i don't know specifically with this chain